Be Afraid. Be Very Afraid…

65

March 23, 2009 by esarsea

behind-door

*KNOCK KNOCK KNOCK* (Sound of door opening)

“Hello, can I help you?”

“Yes sir, we’re here to verify your name and address, obtain your email address, and ask you to sign this form pledging your support to President Obama and his policies.”

“You’re not serious, right?”

“Um, yes sir, we are. It’s called Organizing For America. Now if you could just sign here…”

“Now just wait a minute!”

“Well sir, your neighbors have all signed their forms. Now, Mr. Craig – it is Mr. Craig, isn’t it? Well Mr. Craig, we’d really prefer not to indicate on our paperwork that you refused to sign our form and were not willing to pledge your support to President Obama and his policies…”

“What are you writing on that paper?”

“Oh it’s nothing to concern yourself with, Mr. Craig…”

Oh, and if you think this is some right-wing conspiracy video on youtube, here’s a video from the man himself, from before he was sworn in…

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65 thoughts on “Be Afraid. Be Very Afraid…

  1. Ghazala Khan says:

    Interview Request

    Hello Dear and Respected,
    I hope you are fine and carrying on the great work you have been doing for the Internet surfers. I am Ghazala Khan from The Pakistani Spectator (TPS), We at TPS throw a candid look on everything happening in and for Pakistan in the world. We are trying to contribute our humble share in the webosphere. Our aim is to foster peace, progress and harmony with passion.

    We at TPS are carrying out a new series of interviews with the notable passionate bloggers, writers, and webmasters. In that regard, we would like to interview you, if you don’t mind. Please send us your approval for your interview at my email address “ghazala.khi at gmail.com”, so that I could send you the Interview questions. We would be extremely grateful.

    regards.

    Ghazala Khan
    The Pakistani Spectator
    http://www.pakspectator.com

    Edited by Stu to add: Ghazala Khan’s comment was originally caught by our anti-spam program and held for approval. I looked over the Pakistani Spectator and decided to participate, and approved Ghazala’s comment. You can read the interview here: http://www.pakspectator.com/interview-with-blogger-stu-craig/

  2. Jane says:

    can’t listen to those vids right now but did a little looking into this. at first i wondered what it is that scares you about it Stu, given your tags about privacy etc.
    thats not something that particularly scares me being on some ‘not a 100% obama supporter list”, but what scares me is the amount of people who 100% buy into things they don’t even know what it is.
    I’d look at it more as an opportunity to explain to these people my own views and give them some food for thought about what it is they are doing.
    if anyone comes wandering up to the door of my home though there is gonna to be a more pressing issue to deal with first of all….
    but anyway too bad these people aren’t sepnding their time and enegery getting involved with congress watch groups, it would do so much more for our country IMO.

    anyway i wonder how this is funded.
    and you c ertainly aren’t obligated to give anyone your name in these situations, just like the salesholes who call out business all the time. planety of wasy to get around giving info or verifying info.

  3. Jane says:

    let me know when the spelling police are making rounds tho

  4. bill says:

    Hmmm. “Naked Emperor News. com”

    I wonder which side of the Great Painful National Divide they’re on?

    How is this any different than door-to-door signature gatherers on Initiatives and Amendments and Propositions? You sign, you agree to support it and they use your endorsement to try to influence politicians.

    I think there is a right-wing movement, and has been for 2 years, to make Obama look imperialistic and more like a self-absorbed celebrity than a political leader.

    Is the concern here that Obama is the Anti-Christ and he’s going to round-up opposition party members and put them in Re-Education Camps and, because life and death continues happening even in Re-Education Camps, FEMA will need to provide plastic coffins…and baby formula, presumably.

    Call me a naive progressive, but I don’t see the harm in signing something saying I’m supportive of the President and his policies. I don’t care for people coming to my door and jacking things all out of shape to make their point, like Christian missionaries do, but supporting the President I voted for, one who is under extremely brutal attacks from the right who sat by while BushCo pillaged and raped the country, isn’t that far out for me.

  5. Randy Spiker says:

    Do you think my NRA Life Member decal in the window will disuade them from a knocking on my door?

  6. Jane says:

    I didn’t vote for Obama myself personally and am not linine with everything he’s doing but I got to agree with Bill.

    “Call me a naive progressive, but I don’t see the harm in signing something saying I’m supportive of the President and his policies. I don’t care for people coming to my door and jacking things all out of shape to make their point, like Christian missionaries do, but supporting the President I voted for, one who is under extremely brutal attacks from the right who sat by while BushCo pillaged and raped the country, isn’t that far out for me.”

    Its sort of unbelieveable what people are choosing to freak out about, given the context of what they let happen in recent history.

  7. esarsea says:

    Well, the detention camps https://esarsea.wordpress.com/2009/02/03/detention-camps/ and the FEMA coffins http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m3zSDdm-SHI do exist, but I don’t buy into all the online hysteria and conspiracy theories that surround those issues. None the less, they are interesting topics to bounce around in a forum like this.

    I guess I’m just a naive conservative who isn’t entirely comfortable with the prospect of the government knocking on my door and asking me to sign a form that pledges my allegiance to the president and his policies – and then entering me into a government maintained database of supporters (and/or non-supporters).

    Our country places a high value on the electorate being able to file a secret ballot, and having privacy in the ballot booth. This would seem to run contrary to that philosophy.

    I guess it comes from growing up in the 60’s and 70’s, and the Watergate, Kent State and Viet Nam era. I have tendency to distrust politicans in general…and I’ve probably listened to CSN’s “Long Time Gone” one too many times.

  8. rsr348 says:

    I’m willing to listen to all points of view, but I’m still on the side that believes Obama could be the next FDR or MLK, and not the Anti-Christ, as I’m discovering some wacked-out people in my community believe.

    I don’t agree with them harrassing you for not wanting to join in their movement. That does seem a little over the edge. All we’ve been getting so far are daily emails asking for support, but that’s because we voluntarily joined the campaign efforts.

    I can’t do You Tube on dial-up, but the Obama camp has initiatives to bring affordable broadband out to the sticks….so, maybe soon!

  9. rsr348 says:

    Oh yeah, I was going to tell Randy–love your sense of humor and appreciate your point of view and debate added to the BS blog. I should be able to inform you in friendly rivalry, that the NRA stands for National Redneck Association at our house. And we’re not PETA members or vegetarians. (tree-huggers, maybe) My husband is a long-time hunter, but can’t deal with the NRA and their ridiculous claims that the new administration is on a mission to take all their rights away.

  10. Jane says:

    Stu, you’d be suprised the number of lists this blog is getting you on!

    But the good news is you are definitely gonna get alot of hits now…. when searching around earlier i came up this a couple of times.

    I guess if you note about the era you describe and are not completely blown away by the loss of our freedoms and rights to privacy that the Partirot act brought us then I dunno. Its good to be talking about it I guess but my perspective is quite different. I am fairly sure the purpose here is to get support for certain policies. I am not very supportive of this method myself but engaging our neighbors in whats going on is usually a good way to go about things. Since I have neighbors I don’t like and I don’t like unannounced visitors to my home I would prefer being approached somewhere in public, similar to how i petitioned for an independent political party in Maryland out in the public last year. The Obama supporters were the most angry ones and actually least open minded. The ones who shared their concern about not taking a chance on McCain getting elected at least made sense to me. Those who listened to the reasons for the need of more choices and open debates made the efforts worthwhile. But man there was some angry folks out there who really didn’t seem to understand what I was working toward and I think that is part of what bothers me abotu this subject. I have a sense many of these volunteers are necessarily very informed about what they are doing although I think their intentions are mostly true. The thought of being on a ‘support all Obama does and wants’ list scares me a whole lot less than knowing I am on lists of people who think we need open debates in this country…..or those against the Patriot act for that matter. Thats just me though.

  11. Jane says:

    I hit submit too fast sorry, I meant to say I have a sense these volunteers AREN’T….

  12. Randy Spiker says:

    Well I must inform you that I am a PETA member believe it or not. Sounds like if your husband hunts you actually are members also.
    PETA = People for Eating Tasty Animals. (why do I suspect y’all have heard that one before?)

    OK, back on topic!

  13. bill says:

    You know, I was an NRA member when I was a teenager. It came with the hunter safety program I took.

    What it’s become under Wayne LaPierre is a fear-mongering club for disenfranchised white people.

    I know you’ll probably never watch it Randy, because I almost didn’t want to, but “Bowling for Columbine” had two or three “aha!” moments in it that were just, plain truthful as by my own experience. The bank in the midwest that gave away shotguns if you were a new customer…(Micheal Moore stood in the lobby as they handed him a fine, brand-new pump shotgun and he told them he couldn’t believe a bank was handing out firearms) and even the animated cartoon in the flick about how white people have always feared minitorities (beginning with Indians) to the point that today’s gated, armed-guard communities are a last frontier Fort Caucasian.

    The NRA has helped create a romantic view that guns are part of our society because of the hertiage of the Old West, pioneers, frontier dangers, etc.

    Fact is, guns are part of our society because of fear. No one who ligitamately hunts has to worry about the 2nd Amendment Right To Bear Arms. The weapons used for hunting aren’t the target of any gun control that has any credibility.

    As far as privacy concerns and the Obama Administration, two things: It wasn’t the “guvmint” that showed up at the door asking for support for Obama’s policies any more than Sarah Palin’s politicial action committee to raise money for her already-dead run in 2012 is a government organization.

    And Two, why didn’t anyone on the right give a shit about George Bush’s listening in on random private phone conversations, emails, financial and even medical records under the guise of the Patriot Act?

    It’s a bit late in the game for righteous indignation.

  14. Randy Spiker says:

    I don’t think the Founding Fathers had hunting in mind when they crafted the 2nd ammendment. No, it was to protect us from tyrany which is the natural course a Republic takes as time wears on. Those Founding fathers were a hell of allot smarter than any of those criminal nutjobs masquarading as public officials in today’s Wash DC from EITHER side of the isle.

    As far as the bank handout is concerned…… did they trace any of those weapons to a crime? Michael Moore, you either love him or hate him, is good at one thing…… taking a situation and sensationalizing it to no ends. His movie Sicko that misrepresents the “wonderful” health care system in Cuba is a perfect example. “The ends justify the means” is his approach to documentary film-making, pure propaganda, nothing moore. (pun intended)

    As far as certain types of Guns being ok for hunting and none of us should worry as you put it…….. something that is ALWAYS misrepresented in the press is whether or not a gun is semi or full auto. You always hear them mistakenly report the use of “automatic” firearms when nothing could be further from the truth. Fully automatic weapons are and have been ILLEGAL since the 30s(?). So when it comes time to decide which Guns are OK and which ones aren’t, who is going to decide and what criteria are they going to use. If I want to and have been using an AR-15 for hunting (semi-auto), why shouldn’t I be allowed to continue. Is it because it’s ugly and instills fear into the “timid wood creatures” that would just as well see them ALL banned? It’s no different than many of the “approved” guns. It uses the same ammo (.223), is semi-auto can be scoped and other than the fact that it has seen duty in combat, differs in no way from other “less ugly” guns.

    This is my point, guns are here and have been a way of life in America. Crime statistics have shown a decrease in gun violence as well as accidental under-age dearhs and the supposed “assault rifle” that seems to have caught the eye of Eric Holder is rarely used….. never mind that jacked up idiot that had a shooting rampage a week or two ago. Whether it’s some redneck just wanting to plink on the weekends, someone who wants a little protection from the hood (most inner-cities) or better yet, someone that fears their Government, it really doesn’t matter, we each have the “right to choose” whether we want to pack some heat or not. If you choose not to, that’s your choice but please don’t lump us all into some “fear-mongering club for disenfranchised white people”. I take offense to that kind of comment. And besides, I do know allot of lefties that collect guns and it’s not out of fear.

    I left allot of holes in this argument to try and ferret out the obvious…… so have at it peeps.

  15. Randy Spiker says:

    Bill, since we’re recommending films, here’s a 30 minute short version of a film documentary that exposes the greed that has run rampant in this country for way too long. It’s called I.O.U.S.A. and it is a VERY non-partisan assesment and they really stick it to Bush and Cheney, something that should get your attention.

    http://www.iousathemovie.com:80/

    I haven’t yet had time to verify their “facts” but even if only half of what they’re saying is true, I have the feeling that our time is just about up as a world power.

    See for yourself and give it the old .02 cents. I’m curious as to how accurate these facts are as they are way bigger in scope than anything I’ve previously seen.

  16. rsr348 says:

    Good points from both sides, guys. I saw Bowling for Columbine and particularly remember how Charlton Heston skirted the questions asking what he really felt he needed protection from, and ended up sounding rather racist. My problem with NRA supporters in my corner of the world, is how uninformed they are about things, and how they are influenced by the notion that the democrats want to take their guns away and kill babies with abortions, and that Obama is a muslim terrorist. They also tend to be the ones who enjoy shooting birds and squirrels in their yards just for fun. That’s where my “redneck” comments are coming from.

    I watched Sicko too and agree that it appeared a bit sensationalized, although there’s no doubt our system needs fixing.

    I agree with Bill in the fact that the folks at Stu’s door were not government representives seeking out non-supporters. I’m wondering how young they were. While the twenty-something generation is often well-informed, they don’t always have the social graces we elders are comfortable with. Seems they did a poor job explaining exactly what their mission was.

    And, just for the record, I in no way condone cruelty to animals, and PETA has done some wonderful things, but I recall they also have some extreme views and methods of carrying out their philosophy, so I used them as an example in my previous NRA post.

  17. Randy Spiker says:

    “Good points from both sides, guys. I saw Bowling for Columbine and particularly remember how Charlton Heston skirted the questions asking what he really felt he needed protection from, and ended up sounding rather racist. My problem with NRA supporters in my corner of the world, is how uninformed they are about things, and how they are influenced by the notion that the democrats want to take their guns away and kill babies with abortions, and that Obama is a muslim terrorist. They also tend to be the ones who enjoy shooting birds and squirrels in their yards just for fun. That’s where my “redneck” comments are coming from.”
    I totally disagree with the notion that NRA members are uninformed as you put it. Many are very active politically.
    You paint with a broad brush. Muslim Terrorist, taking guns and killing babies, enjoy shooting birds and squirrles for fun…… got any more stereotypes you could enter into this conversation?

    C’MON!!!!!

    “While the twenty-something generation is often well-informed, they don’t always have the social graces we elders are comfortable with.”

    WHAT?!!! Are you kidding……. they are proven to be THE most uninformed block in poll after poll. Hell, most of them can’t even tell you who the VP or Speaker or what Harry Reid’s position is. But they sure as hell know exactly who the contestants on American Idol are.

    I’ll continue this later as work is a calling.

  18. rsr348 says:

    I said the NRA supporters and the conservatives where I live. I wasn’t knocking intelligent people such as yourself or Stu, I just don’t encounter many where I live. I chose to live here for my love of the outdoors, but have trouble with the narrow views of the majority (not all) of those who live around here.

    I must also head to work. Perhaps I’m not so good at putting what I wish to say into words. Chill dude!

  19. bill says:

    I said, the NRA, under Wayne LaPierre, has become a fear-mongering club for disenfranchised white people. Does that descriptiopn fit you, Randy? I believe LaPierre, in trying to gain new members for the “club” in the 90’s, coined the phrase,”jack-booted thugs” in describing gov’t agents coming to our doors and…wait for it…taking Elian Gonzalez away! You’ll remember that Janet Reno’s jack-booted thugs went into the home of Gonzalez’ Florida relatives and took him out to be deported back to his biological father in Cuba, something Lou Dobbs would be cheerleading if he was sincere.

    quote:”In 1995, LaPierre penned a fund-raising letter in which he referred to federal law enforcement agents as “jack booted thugs.” While not written in relationship to the tragedy, the letter was mailed shortly after the bombing of the Murrah Federal Building in Oklahoma City.

    Although LaPierre issued an official apology, it was too little, too late.

    According to an Associated Press story, the letter directly resulted in the NRA being barred from major sporting goods show in Houston, Laredo and McAllen, Texas.

    The letter also prompted the resignation of many long-standing NRA members including former President George Bush. ”

    As an Independent, I own guns I inherited from my Dad when he died. I don’t keep them loaded.

    We have drive-bys and we have ridiculous gang-drug-related violence in parts of our city. I try to avoid those parts of the city, not get gunned-up and drive through looking for an opportunity to play Dirty Harry.

    The most recent gun-Obama silliness has netted gun dealers tons of cash and they have stoking the coals purposely. They take out ads in our paper saying,”Come get yur ammo and AR-15’s now before Obama’s new anti-gun rules go into place!” I laugh, then I realize it’s real.

    And the scared little sheeple run to the gun store and stock up! Capitalism really does work, you see. You create a demand and then you supply it.

  20. Randy Spiker says:

    “The most recent gun-Obama silliness has netted gun dealers tons of cash and they have stoking the coals purposely. They take out ads in our paper saying,”Come get yur ammo and AR-15’s now before Obama’s new anti-gun rules go into place!” I laugh, then I realize it’s real.”

    Well, this is just for fun but do you know who the #1 gun sales leader in America is today….. Barack Obama.

    All kidding aside, ammo is getting very scarce, partially due to the insane increase in sales but also there is some talk that Ammo manufacturers are having an increased demand from the military….. or so they’re saying anyway.

    “And the scared little sheeple run to the gun store and stock up! Capitalism really does work, you see. You create a demand and then you supply it.”

    As I eluded to up above, one of the main reasons the founding fathers crafted the 2nd ammendment was to prevent tyrany from overcoming the gummit. I also mentioned one of the types of people that owns guns are the “fear your Govt.” crowd. After last week’s expose in how far a govt. will go to create mob rule (to protect their asses) and create laws (90% tax) on the vilified, “fearing your govt.” is becomming just a little clearer to those folks. Top that off with the Bus rides ACORN sponsored last weekend for a tour of AIG execs. houses in Conneticut and you can see where this CAN get out of hand. Didn’t ACORN receive some o’dem handouts called stimulous or was theirs from the bailout funds. Bottom line is now they ARE a govt entity or subsidiary, which ever you choose and for them to exacerbate this AIG bonus mob mentality. is flat wrong and dangerous as well. Obama, their hero, could have stopped this with a simple word….. NO, don’t go there and I’m sure they would have cancelled that tour. Does this make him implicet…… hard to say but he has been stirring the mob pot with his anti AIG bonus rhetoric of late. Something I don’t ever remember seeing a POTUS do before.

    Who’s next?

    BTW; Timothy Geithner was heard today saying he wanted Congress to grant him the power for Govt. takeover of private business if they are in danger of economic default. WTF!!! How did we go from a free market system to one where the State dictates who shall be taken over. Doesn’t that mean that the State under the stewardship of one man, T. Geithner will now be responsible for determining who succeeds and who fails? If someone told me this was coming from Uncle Hugo’s Venezuela, I’d believe them but this is right here in the good ole U.S.A.

    Interesting times we live in.

    I just hope Congress can control itself!

  21. Randy Spiker says:

    “I said the NRA supporters and the conservatives where I live. I wasn’t knocking intelligent people such as yourself or Stu, I just don’t encounter many where I live. I chose to live here for my love of the outdoors, but have trouble with the narrow views of the majority (not all) of those who live around here.”

    Where exactly do you live where the I.Q. is a deficit worthy of a bailout? :-)

    “I must also head to work. Perhaps I’m not so good at putting what I wish to say into words. Chill dude!”

    I think I caught the gist of what you were trying to convey. I don’t have a problem with any of it other than my opinion differs but that in part is why we’re here anyway, Right?!!! I still can’t believe what you said about generation 20s being fairly well informed. Once again, is this part of your own experience where you live?

    Chill, chill ……. OK, I’m chillin and am outta heah. Work becons.

  22. bill says:

    I know what she meant about generation 20’s. I believe it probably has more to do with being connected through technology to world events, initiatives, news if they want it, etc.

    My kids, at any given time, play X-box on line with kids in Russia and Argentina. That doesn’t mean they understand a bail-out expense that could equal our Gross National Product in a few years and bankrupt the country.

    Obama’s campaign made the best use ever witnessed of engaging young people to get out and vote by reaching them through the internet, email, Blackberry’s, YouTube, etc.

    And frankly, Randy, Republicans have been Missing In Action when it comes to a plan, any plan, to do what Obama’s trying to do. Tax cuts for small businesses is a cute, safe, conservative ideal whose time has come and gone and left us in a shambles.

    What will it hurt to let the guy and his administration try to make sense of where we are?

    If this guy wants to roll up his sleeves and carry me on his back across the river, why in the world would I hang onto him and hit him from behind when the water gets deepest?

  23. Jane says:

    ok Stu I watched your videos. I haven’t finished watching the full version of the actual video from obama’s site but the one you have is not just exceprts from that, the weird yelling in the background is added content….

    I am actually a bit more insoired by this than I thought. I think the idea of signing a pledge is not ideal but the idea of encouraging people to get involved and realize that they can amke a difference, along with other concerned citizens to bring about change they think is needed. of course if they think things need changing. This effort focuses on energy , education and health care. all of which i agree need some serious changes. i am almost ready to pledge now for goodn ess sakes, thanks.
    anyway its reminiscent of the congressional watch groups i have been ecouraged to get involved in. yeah the pledge thing isn’t my cup of tea but your little dramatic dialogue at the beggining is not accurate, is it? if so let me know and i will pass the word.
    its not as if they come up to you with your name, they come up to you with the form that you can fill in if you want to, if not they should just move along. this really isn’t about making a negative list, i mean i guess potentially you could get people making a record of going up to 123 main street and got a negative response but i think the people interested in doing this would simply move along and spend their time getting positives.

  24. Randy Spiker says:

    “And frankly, Randy, Republicans have been Missing In Action when it comes to a plan, any plan, to do what Obama’s trying to do. Tax cuts for small businesses is a cute, safe, conservative ideal whose time has come and gone and left us in a shambles.”

    Bill…… you are 100 % correct, no argument from me on that. My attitude has changed of late……. no, I’m no closer to Obama than before but I’ve really grown to dislike ANY of them. Watch that 30 minute video I posted the link to up above and you’ll get a small taste of what’s buggin me.

    “Obama’s campaign made the best use ever witnessed of engaging young people to get out and vote by reaching them through the internet, email, Blackberry’s, YouTube, etc.”

    Yep, they’re light-years ahead of the Repubs and I see no reason to think the Repubs are gonna get on the tech train anytime soon.

    “I know what she meant about generation 20’s. I believe it probably has more to do with being connected through technology to world events, initiatives, news if they want it, etc.

    My kids, at any given time, play X-box on line with kids in Russia and Argentina. That doesn’t mean they understand a bail-out expense that could equal our Gross National Product in a few years and bankrupt the country.”

    Yeah, you’ve got a point there Bill…… I was thinkin aware as in politically aware. (I knew you if anyone, could put me straight) I, like you am amazed at how far and fast technology has advanced in just a few years. It’s just too damned bad that the political intellect seems to have gone the other direction. I guess we will all be playin on our X-boxes, powered by solar panels once the country has gone, as you put it, bankrupt.

  25. rsr348 says:

    This has become quite the thread. I’m a busy, working mom, and don’t have time to go through it all tonight or tomorrow, but perhaps I’ll come back on Thu. Night all.

  26. Randy Spiker says:

    Jane said;
    “I am actually a bit more insoired by this than I thought. I think the idea of signing a pledge is not ideal but the idea of encouraging people to get involved and realize that they can amke a difference, along with other concerned citizens to bring about change they think is needed. of course if they think things need changing. This effort focuses on energy , education and health care. all of which i agree need some serious changes. i am almost ready to pledge now for goodn ess sakes, thanks.
    anyway its reminiscent of the congressional watch groups i have been ecouraged to get involved in. yeah the pledge thing isn’t my cup of tea but your little dramatic dialogue at the beggining is not accurate, is it? if so let me know and i will pass the word.
    its not as if they come up to you with your name, they come up to you with the form that you can fill in if you want to, if not they should just move along. this really isn’t about making a negative list, i mean i guess potentially you could get people making a record of going up to 123 main street and got a negative response but i think the people interested in doing this would simply move along and spend their time getting positives.”

    Randy replies with;
    Perfect timing Jane!
    The House passed the Generations Invigorating Volunteerism and Education Act yesterday.

    http://www.govtrack.us/congress/billtext.xpd?bill=h111-1388

    The bill includes language indicating young people will be forced to participate in mandatory national service programs. The bill also states that “service learning” will be a mandatory part of the youth curriculum.

    That doesn’t sound much like “volunteerism” does it?

    Info Wars and Free Republic reported:

    The House passed a bill yesterday which includes disturbing language indicating young people will be forced to undertake mandatory national service programs as fears about President Barack Obama’s promised “civilian national security force” intensify.

    The Generations Invigorating Volunteerism and Education Act, known as the GIVE Act, was passed yesterday by a 321-105 margin and now goes to the Senate.

    Under section 6104 of the bill, entitled “Duties,” in subsection B6, the legislation states that a commission will be set up to investigate, “Whether a workable, fair, and reasonable mandatory service requirement for all able young people could be developed, and how such a requirement could be implemented in a manner that would strengthen the social fabric of the Nation and overcome civic challenges by bringing together people from diverse economic, ethnic, and educational backgrounds.”

    Section 120 of the bill also discusses the “Youth Engagement Zone Program” and states that “service learning” will be “a mandatory part of the curriculum in all of the secondary schools served by the local educational agency”.

    “The legislation, slated to cost $6 billion over five years, would create 175,000 “new service opportunities” under AmeriCorps, bringing the number of participants in the national volunteer program to 250,000. It would also create additional “corps” to expand the reach of volunteerism into new sectors, including a Clean Energy Corps, Education Corps, Healthy Futures Corps and Veterans Service Corps, and it expands the National Civilian Community Corps to focus on additional areas like disaster relief and energy conservation,” reports Fox News.

    Let the indoctrination begin.

    “There is even a provision in the bill for uniforms.”

    Here we go down that road. Some of you will probably look at this as a good thing, what could it hurt, right? I wonder what the mood was in 1930s Germany as the Hitler youth brigades (brown shirts) were starting up. I’m sure they felt the same way…… what could it hurt, right?!!!

    I know, I know…… probably just some innocent program to “help” America’s youth get aquainted with public service.

    I really do wonder what was going on back then, what was the actual mood in the country before things started going nutso.

  27. Jane says:

    truthfully i haven’t read that whole thing but taking a quick look it seems just to be amendments to the current law. Students here are already required to have service learning credits to graduate but thats not to the extent of this service corp thing. the word uniform in the bill is noted to replace the word clothing in the current law, as in thing that would be provided . anyway i would have to go back and look at the current law to see more about the corps.

    of course sure things start out looking peachy keen and can turn ugly but this does scare me as much as the possibility of a military draft or mandatory military service sort of thing. that a bit more scary IMO but you are right all these things should be looked into.

    as far as the congressional watchgroup things i refer to, well they would be helping citizens stay on top of what legislation is being considered and helping to giev individuals more power and voice in what gets passed.

  28. Jane says:

    again i submitted too fast i mean this doesn’t scare me as much. sounds more like a national guard meets red cross sort of thing but maybe i have it all wrong.
    i used to think our military was for defense too and that the national guard had a different purpose than what its being abused for now, IMO

    but of course going back to the original topic, engaging our neighbors in these discussion is a good way to utilize our rights to our benefit and survival.

  29. bill says:

    Well, that little shining beacon of democracy in the Middle East that we throw billions at and call…(no, not Iraq)…Israel, requires all able-bodied young people to serve 2 years in the military. Not door-to-door serving the elderly or poor, but carrying a weapon and wearing a uniform.

    Why are some people so afraid of our kids being trained and taught life and service. It’s beats the hell out of gangs teaching them how to live.

    When I was 19, I got hauled off to basic training basically against my will and better judgement. Honestly, because I didn’t have to kill anyone before I got out, it was a positive experience overall.

    Now, if I can just get my 19 year-old to finish community college and enlist…

  30. rsr348 says:

    Good morning. Well, I still don’t have time right now to read through all the additional posts since Tue, but I can answer the 2 questions Randy asked me about earlier.

    Where do I live that I encounter such an IQ deficit? I reside in the beautiful vacation land of northern Wis, where most of the locals are kind, helpful and concerned citizens. They just have a rather uniformed view when it comes to politics, and focus on issues like abortion and gun rights, two issues I think are of little importance with all that’s happening in our world. My husband has some students who tell him that Obama is a muslim and a terrorist. They are obviously hearing that from adults. My daughter told me that a substitute teacher said Obama kills babies. I had to try to explain the issue of women’s rights to a first grader and ease her mind. Granted, this sub is known to be a little wacky, but still, many of the teachers aren’t even aware of the way politics affect their profession.

    And a drive through the back country? Ever see the movie “Deliverance”? I kid you not. My husband and I both deal with a lot of social service situations and it’s pretty scarey, though I won’t elaborate any further.

    Why do I think the 20-somethings are informed? I said that in the context of Stu’s door-knocking visititors. I was thinking of the young generation that is politically concerned and motivated, and want to get their point across, but maybe didn’t handle it in the most tactful manner. I’ve heard all the stats about how the younger generations don’t know their history and geography and can’t name their political leaders, etc.
    I think that’s an issue in my own generation X as well.

    And, I just got an email from “Organizing for America”. They wanted to verify our address, so they could list our Representatives and encourage us to call them and urge them to support some initiatives. It says they also have canvassers going door-to-door across the country.

  31. esarsea says:

    Just back from a quick business trip to Phoenix to meet with Safeway (the grocery store chain) who I haul frozen food and produce for. I watched Randy’s IOUSA video just before I left, and have not been able to get it out of my mind since. One of the scariest things I’ve seen in a long while, and probably our most pressing issue. If we don’t get a handle on it, all the other stuff many not matter much.

    It was an issue Ross Perot focused on when he ran for president in 92 and 96….and our debt back then paled in comparison to what it is now.

    If any of you have yet to watch it, I encourage you to do so! I’m thinking we should give it it’s own post/thread.

  32. Jane says:

    i haven’t been able to watch that video but, lets just say there have been more than Ross Perot warning us for years and also educating us. the ironic thing is that while I don’t think the POTUS is handling it in the best way, the original topic of this blog entry is about getting people to get involved. Thats the only way we can overcome this thing.
    i think though instead of pledging to support something that is not clearly defined as the organizing for america sort of does, that we pledge to educate ourselves and each other and demand that our country takes proper action.
    i’ve found that Mr. nader offers up many more solutions than i have found elsewhere as evidenced by his most recent entry at http://www.nader.org you can do a search on debt, or deficit and find info going back to the 70s there
    I’ll look at the video when i get a chance though. hopefully it has some real workable solutions.
    onward

  33. Jane says:

    Here we go this brings many of the things we have been talking about together from being wary of the democratic party to the informed and concerned youth to being mad at the economic situation to organizing to doing something about it
    http://www.anewwayforward.org/demonstrations/

  34. Da Goddess says:

    I have no problem with requiring people receiving financial aid to give back to the community, but it should be in the field in which they’ve been trained. While going to nursing school, I looked for such an opportunity (to reduce my student loans and to be a productive member of the community). Nothing was available unless I went to a remote area, which, frankly, wouldn’t work due to the fact I had small children who needed me. I was surprised that the hospital where I eventually became employeed was not considered to be in a hardship area. It was close to the border, had many homeless people as patients, and is in one of the poorest cities in the United States.

    The thing is, I don’t want to be forced into anything and have it called volunteerism. Nor should our children be forced to do this. Both of my kids already volunteer in the community and participate in many ways. Not because they are required to do so, but because they want to.

    The problem with this legislation is that it is not being used for the good of the community. It is being used for the good of this administration.

    We shouldn’t have to have people showing up at our homes, asking us to sign a pledge of service. Put them to work in more meaningful ways. Have them help feed the homeless, train them in childcare, put them through school for nursing (we have a major nursing shortage and it ain’t going away any time soon!), teach them how to do more than bow before a president.

  35. rsr348 says:

    Yes, many answers lie in people taking some personal responsibility and working together to help make this a better country for all, and this is something Obama is also asking people to do. It takes some leadership to get a lot of people motivated, and that’s what’s happening now.

  36. esarsea says:

    Jane, I wasn’t suggesting Perot was the first or only person concerned with the debt – it was an ancedotal reference :-)

    I’ll take a look at your link over the weekend.

    Great discussions here. I love it!

  37. rsr348 says:

    Stu, I just skimmed over the interview with TPS. You did well. How cool! Amazing where the blogoshpere can take us, and the possibilities it may bring. Now, back to housework, dang it all! This topic has distracted me for too many days.

  38. Da Goddess says:

    But, I don’t see Obama as an effective leader. Sure, he’s sold a good chunk of American on his charms, but the simple fact is, he needs people to “pledge” to support him because he’s not maintaining his platform, nor is he effective in many other ways. It’s one thing to talk about volunteerism and “giving back” and another to run a country effectively. He’s not the right man for the job. He’s just…not.

  39. Randy Spiker says:

    DaGoddess said;

    “The thing is, I don’t want to be forced into anything and have it called volunteerism. Nor should our children be forced to do this.”

    Randy replies;
    A BIG 10-4 on that one. Volunteer as defined by the Websters New World Dictionary;
    noun, one who chooses FREELY to do something, as entering military service.
    Note the word “freely”
    free, adj. not under the control or power of another.

    So there we have it….. another attempt at bastardizing the english language by politicians hell bent on pushing forth an agenda with all the “beneficial” conotations attached.

    These people make me wanna puke!!!

  40. Randy Spiker says:

    “Pledge to Break Up the Banks
    Tell Obama and Congress: “If it’s too big to fail, it’s too big to exist. Dismantle the power of the financial elite and make policies that keep a new crop from springing up. We want our economy and politics restored for the public.” Do something: sign onto the demand and we’ll bring this message to Congress on April 11. If there’s a rally near you, we’ll tell you.”

    OK Jane….. as you can see, I went and opened that link you posted. This is just flat out dangerous and is a perfect example of how far we’ve slipped. “Pledge to break up the Banks” is nothing more than stirring up the fire and promoting mob rule, the same thing that happened in Connecticut a few weeks ago when ACORN bused people into the neighborhoods of AIG execs. Sure, you may have some disagreements with how some of this financial crisis has come down but to actually want to tear down what has up to a few months ago, been a pretty successful system because you’re pissed someone is having a retreat on the public dime is not much different than the mentality that had German mobs tearing down, taking over or destroying Jewish businesses back in 1930s Germany.

    Get a grip and start looking at what’s going down in this country now.

    And BTW; many of the problems the Banks are having can be directly traced to the fact that the politicians forced them to make risky Home loans by way of the Community Reinvestment Act. Isn’t that great, first the politicians force them to make poor business decisions that drive them into economic disaster, then forceably loan them money (Wells Fargo for example) and then complain when they have these little customer relations outings as they have always had and THEN…. stir up mob rule when they (the politicians) realize what they have done.

    This is NOT the country I grew up in and came to love. Nope, these are the early stages of what will eventually become tyrannical law if we’re not careful.

  41. Randy Spiker says:

    After thinking some more about that link Jane posted (can you tell I’m pissed?) it is becomming obvious that Saul Alinsky’s “Rules for Radicals” are clearly being used. Here’s one that pretty much sums up how the Sheeple have been used and led to react lately;

    RULE 5: “Ridicule is man’s most potent weapon.” There is no defense. It’s irrational. It’s infuriating. It also works as a key pressure point to force the enemy into concessions. (Pretty crude, rude and mean, huh? They want to create anger and fear.) AIG ring a bell here?

    To read more about these Rules for Radicals and Saul Alinsky open this link;
    http://www.geocities.com/WallStreet/8925/alinsky.htm

    also;
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Saul_Alinsky

    Rules for Radicals is a manifesto for left wing protesters. Many of the tactics described in these rules have been used for many years and when you read them it will become obvious as the left’s proceedural operating manual.

  42. Randy Spiker says:

    I’m still seething……
    Quote from Jane’s link;

    “DECENTRALIZE: Any bank that’s “too big to fail” means that it’s too big for a free market to function. The financial corporations that caused this mess must be broken up and sold back to the private market with new antitrust rules in place — new banks, managed by new people.”

    OK so WHO is going to determine who these “new people” are? You and the mob protesters or the government that screwed things up in the first place? Warning, not a good idea! To once again quote Benjamin Franklin who was a hell of a lot smarter than the dunderheads organizing this protest;

    “Those who would give up essential liberty to purchase a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety”.
    Benjamin Franklin, Historical Review of Pennsylvania, 1759

    Janes says;

    “Here we go this brings many of the things we have been talking about together from being wary of the democratic party to the informed and concerned youth to being mad at the economic situation to organizing to doing something about it”

    Randy responds with;

    “Organizing to do something about it”? This is REALLY starting to sound and look like 1930s Nazi Germany. Instead of vilifying the Jews we’re going after “big business”. Where does it stop? Once emboldened by one or two successes where will the mob turn next? With all of the Global Warming crap circulating and a sympathetic administration powered by both sides of Congress, “smart” energy grids are already being discussed. What that entails is bringing a “smart” thermostat into the home, centrally monitored for the purpose of controlling your environment. And you guys think the Patriot act is a problem?

    Be careful what you ask for, it’ll come back and bite YOUR ass in ways unimaginable!

    PS; my use of “mob” may be a slight stretch as the definition is as follows;
    mob, n. a disorderly, lawless crowd.
    But the definition for mob’bing is perfect;
    mob’bing, to crowd around and attack, annoy etc.

    How long before “mob’bing” turns into a “mob”? Especially when you have a POTUS and high ranking members of Congress cheerleading.

  43. Jane says:

    Dude, thats a stretch and a million…..comparing organizing demonstrations like these to 1930s Nazi Germany?
    Maybe you could share what your IOUSA link had in the way of solutions. This demonstration is about motivating people to take part in the decision making process. The fact that the banks are ‘too big to fail’ is a ‘pretty big problem’. Lets develop a system that is harder to corrupt.

    Its cool if you don’t want to participate but you’re throwing some serious mojo down on something that isn’t at all as you describe. this is not about stirring the fire and encouraging mob rule, its about encouraging learning and getting people to stand up for their rights. Its about raising awareness and let our leaders know what is and what is not desired out of the citizens but you can continue to be afraid right along with Stu….

    and why do you think an organizied demonstration is mobbing?
    and the whole point of this is that the POTUS and high ranking members of Congress AREN’T cheerleading for the best solutions in some people’s opinions. so take your freak out glasses off and maybe try looking at it again. or at least stop freaking out. this is a good thing IMO

    of course this particular thing is different to the original topic , as is the legislation you commented on prviously. I think some of the other readers might have gotten some of it all mixed up..maybe we should tackle it one issue at a time…

  44. Jane says:

    and apologies if me saying dude is severley offensive to you. I forget that sometimes, its a way of speaking for me and I do apologize if that bothered you particularly, I didn’t mean anything bad by that , juts like a step back a minute sort of thing I meant.

  45. Randy Spiker says:

    Jane said

    “and apologies if me saying dude is severley offensive to you. I forget that sometimes, its a way of speaking for me and I do apologize if that bothered you particularly, I didn’t mean anything bad by that , juts like a step back a minute sort of thing I meant.”

    Randy replies;

    Jane…… I’m amused that this single part of your reply (“dude”) you might think offends me…….. couldn’t be further from the truth, I LOVE IT!!!!

    Now as for the rest of your reply….. lets just say that speaking for myself and I’m sure Stu would agree, I’M NOT AFRAID!!!!! However, I am VERY CONCERNED!!!

    You wrote;

    “This demonstration is about motivating people to take part in the decision making process. The fact that the banks are ‘too big to fail’ is a ‘pretty big problem’. Lets develop a system that is harder to corrupt.”

    ….and I will once again respond with WHO is ultimately going to make these decisions? You, a cast of protesters or more likely the crooks in Wash D.C. that have already shown just how good THEY are at screwing things up by getting us here in the first place. I realize how desirable the “utopian” mentality is and how it always seems to be right beyond your fingertips, if only this or that were to happen. It’s like chasing a Cocaine high. I was once a person with more idealistic thoughts similar I suppose to yours now, I was VERY active in the anti-war movement back in the late 60s and early 70s and the proliferation of Nuclear weapons was always in the forefront of my activities. What happened to me you might ask?….. I GREW UP!!! Have you ever heard this….. if you’re under 30 and not a liberal, you have no heart. BUT, if you’re over 30 and are not a conservative, you have no Brain. That pretty much sums up the way I feel about all these differing opinions. Liberals tend to “feel” where-as Conservatives tend to “think”. Liberal policies always start out as noble “feel-good” approaches to right all that is wrong and that is why we are never allowed to go back and examine the failings of said policies. The “Great Society” and the resultant “war on Poverty” is a perfect example of what I’m referring to here. With conservative estimates of over 11 Trillion dollars having been spent, the war on poverty is no closer to victory than it was at it’s inception some 40 years ago. But y’all sure “felt good” knowing that something was being done, RIGHT?!!!

    So go out, make a difference and “feel” like you’re doing something to affect “change”, good or bad. Meanwhile, I will continue to “think” about possible solutions to the ever increasing likelyhood that tyranny will result from your “feeling” good about protesting legitimate business and the sometimes bad decisions YOU assume they’ve made, not having the first clue as to what they have had to deal with (Congress, Barney Frank, Chris Dodd and yes George Bush).

    It might surprise you to know that one aspect of the website link you provided I agree with….. “let ’em fail”….. no one’s too big in my book! I have absolutely no use for bailouts, stimulous or whatever new catch phrase they devise next that describes the robbing from legitimate taxpayers to prop up failing parts of our economy or society. Once again, we’ve “been there, done that” with the Community Reinvestment Act which is the main reason we’re having this discussion in the first place.

    Jane wrote;

    “Dude, thats a stretch and a million…..comparing organizing demonstrations like these to 1930s Nazi Germany?”

    Randy replies;

    Oh really……. you find it sooooo inconceivable that what seems like an innocent little protest against some greedy, too big for their britches Banking institutions has ABSOLUTELY no parallels……. please go re-educate yourself on what really took place back then. The similarities are GLARING! The AIG “Executives Harassment Tour” sponsored by non other than a major GOVERNMENT stimulous receipient organization called ACORN with a cheerleading (damn, there’s that stinkin word again) Whitehouse (Obama’s “choked with anger” press conference) and Congress (90% insta-tax on AIG bonuses) are something that has NEVER in the history of this freedom loving country taken place. This is how mob sentiments begin. History has a wonderful (?) way of repeating itself and I’m afraid that this time will be no exception due to the fact that the most costly resource in this country right now is IGNORANCE!!!

    Jane wrote;

    “Maybe you could share what your IOUSA link had in the way of solutions”.

    I’m not sure this country could handle a realistic approach or “solution” as you put it. If you go and look at the Constitution, the main and some would argue, only purpose of the federal government is protecting this country from forces, outside and in. Where we have fallin off the boat is when we decided that the welfare of the citizenry was the responsibility of the feds. Don’t get me wrong, I do see a need for much that has become commonplace in our daily lives. In order to seriously challenge the 52 Trillion dollar debt they estimate, ALL programs would need to cease and we all know that just ain’t gonna happen. So realistically, there really isn’t a solution and I think that is what has Stu so disturbed is the prospect of this coming to fruition. The debt has steadily been increasing over the years(not to be confused with deficets) and what has happened with the new Obama administration and a spendy Senate and House is comparable to a race car that just opened the Nitrous tank for increased acceleration. We’re out of control for sure.

    Jane wrote;

    “of course this particular thing is different to the original topic , as is the legislation you commented on prviously. I think some of the other readers might have gotten some of it all mixed up..maybe we should tackle it one issue at a time…”

    Randy responds with;

    You’re right, this thread has many twists and turns. “One issue at a time”, how boring…… where’s your multi-tasking skills girl? ;-)

    OK, I’m done…… NEXT!

  46. Randy Spiker says:

    Oooops, I guess i’m not done. Jane, I apologize to you with my use of the “girl” word. Some could take offense, thinking I am accusing them of being immature or something along those lines.

    Also, I don’t have a pair of “freak-out” glasses. No, mine are actually just corrected for seeing up close. My distance vision is 20/10 according to my optomotrist. I DO wish I could get some of those “rosy colored” glasses you seem to wear. Have they come out with the Utopian Halogram model yet? ;-)

  47. Randy Spiker says:

    Randy wrote;

    “History has a wonderful (?) way of repeating itself and I’m afraid that this time will be no exception due to the fact that the most costly resource in this country right now is IGNORANCE!!!”

    Randy corrects;

    ……. the word “resource”. Please replace with the word commodity. It SHOULD read;
    History has a wonderful (?) way of repeating itself and I’m afraid that this time will be no exception due to the fact that the most expensive commodity in this country right now is IGNORANCE!!!”

    Sorry if that threw anyone for a loop.

  48. Jane says:

    Thanks Randy. I am not sure how all the participants may feel about it but I don’t see this demonstration the same as the aig tour type thing.
    This, to me, is less about that sort of thing and more about encouraging people to learn so that we can affect the legislation.
    This isn’t something that is against people, this is something that is for people. now if you believe corporations should have rights equal or beyond those of individual citizens (corporate personhood) then that is the obvious difference here I think.
    If you don’t think that the big corps and banks are the reason behind this sort of crap then I don’t know what to say. this , to me isn’t about beating anyone down but rather lifting up the citizenry to find a better way..lets get this thing understandable to begin with so that we can eliminate the too big to fail part, will it happen, who knows but without giving it a try it definitely won’t. i am not real good at explaining and i am still learning. i won’t be attending any of these demonstrations on the 11th because i will be on a short vacation but I think its worthy to spread the word and people can make up their own mind I guess.

  49. Jane says:

    Oh and also thanks Stu for sharing the communication and interview with the Pakistani Spectator. Its very encouraging too see the openess and willingness for understanding each other. Especially with all this unmanned drone bombing going on.

  50. […] The BS Blog Bill, Stu and friends… « Be Afraid. Be Very Afraid… […]

  51. bill says:

    You know, Randy, I could sit here all day and find convenient references to Karl Rove and Heimlich Himmler or Ghengis Khan or Jesus or Tony Saprano. If I spent one hour, I could manage to piece together the similarities between George Bush and one of the Roman Emperors who did more damage to their own empire than all their enemies put together. Oh, and I could throw in some links and some quotes and some anecdotes.

    For what?

    It’s all media hyped-nonsense.

    And where they Hell were you for the past 8 years when it comes to the Constitution? Did it take the first African-American president who’s been known to eat a dinner in the same room as William Ayers to bring it out? Was it because he was a community organizer before he was a senator and Acorn is organizing voter registration drives in poor communties? Go to their web sitre and just look at the awful activities they are suggesting that will certainly cause wide-scale stuff to happen…what, exactly, I don’t know because I’m not as smart as you are. I can’t see through the cunning lies about supporting Obama’s 2010 budget or how they are trying to help poor people from losing their shelter to foreclosures in an economy that got handed to Barack Obama by a group of the ugliest motherfuckers who ever held up the country for their own gain.

    This morning, Obama said that the auto companies are NOT too big to fail and if they don’t get their shit together, soon, they will swing by their own rope. Huge sell off of product, captial equipment, buildings, etc.

    Hmmmmm. I wonder what devious bullshit he’s really up to? Again, I’m not smart enough to listen to Rush Limbaugh or Sean Hannity or Glen Beck and find out what’s really going on.

    And, honest to God Joanie, who is a better candidate than Obama at this point in time? Liberals are upset that he’s negotiating and spending the political capital that he earned with the election; conservatives are upset because he’s doing something besides reading “My Pet Goat,” and cutting taxes for the rich, or, as Bush liked to call them, his “base.” They lost the fuckling election and they need to shut the fuck up and either lead, follow or get the Hell out of the way.

    I mean give me someone from the list of people who ran for president, someone who you would have in there instead of him and please don’t give me Ron Paul or Ralph Nader nonsense. It had to be someone who could build a popular coalition and actually do the work of the people, with or without those embarassed, ineffectual, “here’s my budget” blank document-holding asshats on the Repub side.

    The real fear about Barack Obama right now is that he’ll whimp-out on his policies because people like some on this thread will tear at him relentlessly and cave into the right-wing fear factor that all things Obama are bad.

    I’ll tell you straight away, where this comes from: Embarassment that your guy was an idiot, through and through. He started two wars with NO FUCKING PLAN! He stood by and watched New Orleans drown because none of his base were involved (Republicans will tell you, those people had plenty of warning, but didn’t want to leave…convenient). His buddies in oil and gas got fabulously wealthier as we got poorer. The world hated our guts under Bush. And we find ourlseves hung-over, naked, scratched up and confused at the side of the road in the middle of the night somewhere near the airport with no ride in sight. Obama comes along to offer a ride and first-aid kit and rather than take him up on it, we sit in the mud next to his car reciting all the terrible things he might do to us on the way to the hospital.

    I’m starting to think that the huge, non-existent FEMA-run re-education camps might not be a bad thing.

    Let me ask you Obama-haters a question and let’s see who has the Jayboes to answer honestly for a change: Can you imagine what things would look like, right now, with John McCain and Sarah Palin in control of our country? Go ahead, drink it in and then complain about Barack Obama who’s had 2 months to undo the idiotic bullshit foisted on the world by his predecessor’s administration.

    Even George Bush said that Barack Obama deserves his silence and that he loves his country more than he loves his party.

    A-fucking-men!

  52. Randy Spiker says:

    Billie, Billie, Billie…… a nice rant, somewhat warranted and definitely all you. I don’t have a lot of time right now (15 min. break) but I just want to convey that we agree (amazing, I know) on much of what you laid down here. I have grown more and more weary of the Bush admin and make no apologies for them any more. However, they’re old news! Time to move on and yes, I have many problems with this administration and will continue to be a thorn in your side if Obamanomics is something you’re in favor of. I’m not! The line has been crossed. Never has a president so meddled in private business dealings as we witnessed yesterday(GM) and today with the forcing of Chrysler to merge with Fiat. Seems like that company ALWAYS needs a successful sidekick, eh? And if GM is not too big to fail as you put it, then what the fuck are we doing running their show.

    Un fucking believable!!!

    Gotta go but aisle beee baaack!

  53. bill says:

    And you know, Randy, maybe a president should have meddled a little more while Rome burned.

  54. Randy Spiker says:

    Nah, by that time it was a done deal for the Romans. The “meddling” had already taken place around the time of Caeser.

    Interesting you should mention Rome.

  55. Da Goddess says:

    Bill, don’t start in on the New Orleans thing with me. You’ll lose. That’s a tired ass argument anyway.

    Obama is running his office as if he were big man on campus, as if this was nothing more than a popularity contest. He fails to see the big picture, pure and simple. And let me tell you, I wasn’t disappointed that the Dems picked him over Hillary, but I was disappointed that he won the presidency. Still, he’s our president and we’ll have to bear out his term. I’m not whining about it. I’m not cutting him down. I’m just calling it as I see it. He’s not the right man to be leading this country. That’s MY opinion and nothing you say is going to change my mind. Especially not some tired argument that’s how many years old? AND easily beat? Sorry. Not gonna happen, my friend.

  56. rsr348 says:

    Thanks for saying what I didn’t, Bill. I’m too exhausted with this topic. The man’s only been in office 2 months, for crying out loud. The poor guy is even getting harrassed about his basketball brackets. First, he shouldn’t be wasting time doing them. Then, he’s an ass for not doing them for women’s basketball.

    Love ya all. Have a nice week. I’ll be back when there’s a less intense topic.

  57. bill says:

    I love the way you guys dismiss a counterpoint by saying,”That’s old news,” or “That’s a tired story.”

    Your Obama-as-a-failed-President is an old, tired story and it’s only been 60 days.

    I actually wish there was someone from “the other side” who could make me lose an argument about the past 8 years.

    It’s not going to come from somone who can’t name a better candidate because there aren’t any. You aren’t going to win any arguments with that kind of logic.

  58. Stu says:

    To me it’s not so much dismissing the counterpoint for content as it is just dismissing the counterpoint. It’s kind of like the guy who gets pulled over for speeding and tells the cop, “Didn’t you see the red car? He was going 10 MPH faster than me!” and the cop replies, “Yes, but I didn’t pull him over, I pulled you over.”

    Like the example above, I don’t know if it’s an effective response to a criticism to ask why the same criticisms were not made against someone else. Maybe write a GW post and hammer away? Then the counterpoints become just points, and are not so easily dismissed. I don’t know…but this sure has become a very enjoyable exchange!

  59. bill says:

    Well, I don’t agree. The Conservatives in this country have suddenly gotten all fiscally responsible railing against Obama’s proposed budget with drama, fake budgets of their own, obstructive, partisan voting/non-voting, fillibustering and dire predictions of our country’s demise to block anything they can.

    I think it’s a fair question to ask why they sat there silent for 8 years while the “old news” administration spent and spent and spent until we had created one of the largest growths of government spending in our history.

    All I’m saying is:”What’s the big deal, Repubs/Conservatives? When Bush spent like a drunken sailor, you were silent. Now, spending is a national disaster after 60 days. And even Glenn Beck is worried (to tears) about what’s happening to “his” country.

    Most of this thread reminds me of Glenn Beck’s tears.

    Jesus.

  60. Stu says:

    For me personally, I just became aware of just how dire the situation was. Had I seen that I.O.U.S.A. movie 3 or 4 years ago while GW was doubling our national dept I would have voiced my concerns then too.

    I’ve really become more politically aware since the birth of this blog than I have my entire life previous – thanks to the writings of you, Randy and Jane. Each with great points, and different points of view. I’m appreciative of the education I’m receiving.

  61. Randy Spiker says:

    Bill wrote;

    “Well, I don’t agree. The Conservatives in this country have suddenly gotten all fiscally responsible railing against Obama’s proposed budget with drama, fake budgets of their own, obstructive, partisan voting/non-voting, fillibustering and dire predictions of our country’s demise to block anything they can.”

    Randy responds;

    Wrongo there fella. CONSERVATIVES have ALWAYS been fiscally responsible. It’s Republicans (big difference) that spent like drunken Democrats and deservedly got thrown out of office. Now those same Repubs are struggling with the fact that they screwed themselves royally and can’t figure out how to get their own Dicks out of their asses. It’ll be years before anyone starts looking at them credibly unless the Dims screw up so bad that we’ll once again be forced to hold our noses and vote for the fuckers.
    “fake budgets of their own, obstructive, partisan voting/non-voting, fillibustering”…. WHAT?!!! Fillibustering? Did I miss something? there hasn’t been any such action……. YET! Your paranoid imagination has been working overtime! Obstructive, partisan voting? Oh I get it…… you’re upset because they’re spoiling the Obama shopping spree. When did YOU EVER gripe about the Dims and their partisan rankling? Geez! And just to inform you, there ARE two parties in Wash and that’s exactly what they’re SUPPOSED TO DO!!!

    Bill wrote;

    “I think it’s a fair question to ask why they sat there silent for 8 years while the “old news” administration spent and spent and spent until we had created one of the largest growths of government spending in our history.”

    Randy responds;

    First off, see above. Secondly, if “spending” bothers you as much as you seem to indicate then why in the hell are you giving this administration a pass. The budget BHO proposed last week is 30 plus percent HIGHER than any previous budget. Consistency man!!! And I gotta say for someone who told me in another post a couple of months ago that he couldn’t stand either party or politicians in general, you sure seem to stick up for the Dims…….. ALLOT!!! Did you lie to me?!!!

    Bill wrote;

    All I’m saying is:”What’s the big deal, Repubs/Conservatives? When Bush spent like a drunken sailor, you were silent. Now, spending is a national disaster after 60 days. And even Glenn Beck is worried (to tears) about what’s happening to “his” country.

    Randy responds;

    Once again please don’t confuse Conservatives with Republicans. It’s no different than saying ALL Democrats are Liberals!
    I was not at all happy with Bush’s spending habits except for one thing that will probably bust your nut…… The WAR!!! It’s the ONLY thing the Constitution specifically designates as a federal responsibilty….. paraphrasing, “protection from forces, outside and within”. I was most unhappy with his medicare prescription bullshit. The reason you never knew how I felt (not that it makes any difference) is because I wasn’t posting on this blog. Spending IS a natural disaster after 60 days. You of all people should be concerned. Regardless of who did what, who didn’t say anything or whatever other problem you have with the past or present you still have to answer….. WHO IS GOING TO PAY FOR IT!!!!!! You can’t print your way out (hyper-inflation), you can’t tax your way out (even if you confiscated those evil rich incomes 5% and above, it wouldn’t even bring in a trillion….. still far short) yet we’re spending as if money is suddenly being harvested on trees. Maybe Michelle planted a money tree in that garden but that’s just for “change”.

    I don’t listen to or watch Glenn Beck so if he has been brought to tears I’ll trust your observation. And whadda ya mean “his country”? I thought Rush was the new leader now. That’s what the left wants us all to think. ;-) (another use of Alinsky rule #12)

  62. Randy Spiker says:

    Bill wrote;

    “I love the way you guys dismiss a counterpoint by saying,”That’s old news,” or “That’s a tired story.”

    Randy responds;

    Oooooohh that is so rich! YOU, my friend are SOOOOOO selective in your disdain……. seems like that is all we heard from two days on after Clinton left office. NOPE, cain’t discuss the hillbilly. “That’s old news,” or “That’s a tired story.”

    Priceless!

    Bill wrote;

    “Your Obama-as-a-failed-President is an old, tired story and it’s only been 60 days.”

    Randy responds with;

    I have a feeling this may have a tinge of sarcasm to it but I’m gonna treat it as though you’re serious. Obama as a failed President might qualify as “old news” if it was 60 days AFTER his time was up but in this case he’s just gotten started. GET USED TO IT!!!!! You were probably bitching two days after Bush “stole it from Gore” so quit your whining!

  63. bill says:

    I stand by what I said, Randy. Conservatives sat right there , along with moderates and “regular” Republicans and lapped it up for 8 years. The Democrats were missing in action as the minority party. None dared be labeled as traitors in war time by Rove and Cheney by standing up for their so-called beliefs.

    The high-profile conservatives I witnessed during the campaign came around to endorsing Obama because they had no where else to go.

    I wonder how many of them walked into the booth and voted for Obama because they had been so marginalized by their own party?

    And if it makes you feel any better, I should have said the “threat of… fillibuster.” Thanks for the catch. Like putting a bandaid on a guillotine victim.

    I’m quite content to let this play out over the next few years. In November 08, we were left standing in the bottom of an empty swimming pool. I’m more than happy to let Obama try to fill the pool again.

    The loud, dire and obnoxious noises you hear from the right are the sounds of dying dinosaur-idealogues who ran and got their bullet from Sheriff Andy long after the bank robbers already left Mayberry.

    If you, meaning conservatives and Republicans, as you choose to parse them so carefully, know anything about what you are talking about, you’re a little late with your fiscal conservatism.

    I’ll tell you what, Randy. I’m done with this thread. Go and be very afraid all you want. I’ve chosen a different path. We have elected a good, caring and honest man to lead us out of the shithole we found oursleves in.

  64. […] 2009 McDonalds post with 320 views, and our 3rd most active post is our March 23, 2009 offering, Be afraid – be very afraid (which is one of Bill’s favorites, […]

  65. […] #6. Be Afraid. Be Very Afraid… (277) […]

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