Mosque At Ground Zero?

46

July 23, 2010 by esarsea

Randy posted the following video in the comment section of my recent post regarding Muslim Family Day at 6 Flags Theme Park near Chicago. It discusses the plans to build a mosque at ground zero in NYC, supposedly scheduled to open Sept 11th, 2011. I thought it deserved its own thread.

Interesting to note there’s already a number mosques and/or islamic centers in the area. Click here for a map. 

46 thoughts on “Mosque At Ground Zero?

  1. torqdog says:

    Yeah, and ya know what, I don’t have a problem what-so-ever with Mosques and Muslim religious centers throughout the city. However, I do have a major problem with them putting a monolithic Mosque on top of the site that was taken down by people, in the name of Allah, practicing their “faith”. I’m surprised there hasn’t been more uproar regarding this. Have we as a nation been lulled back to sleep?

    As far as digging deeper into this, from my end it will have to wait as I am loading the truck right now as we speak for our weekend getaway. Talk to y’all next week and do try to behave yourselves! :-)

  2. esarsea says:

    I have absolutely no problem with mosques or religious centers either. It’s one of the principles our country was founded on; freedom from religious persecution, freedom to worship, etc.

    The more I’ve looked into it, the more uproar I’ve seen online. There was an interesting clip of Sarah Palin taking issue to ground zero mosque, and NY Governor Bloomberg taking issue with Palin for taking issue to it. As I watched the video below I couldn’t help reflect on the words, “…a country crippled by political correctness” that I heard in the Brit’s video that prompted this post.

  3. Bill says:

    I can’t watch Sarah McWordSalad on any issue that’s complex and requires intellectual curiosity, but I would like to try something with you two.

    If, somehow, the notion that someone should block the mosque’s location near Ground Zero came to pass, what’s the reason? What would you have the presiding authority tell the Muslims who want to build it there, that it’s “too soon?” That we’re “too emotional” about the whole thing to allow it?

    After all, they’re Muslims and so were the Saudis who flew planes into the Towers, so it just stands to reason that Muslims = Towers coming down = moratorium on Muslim religious buildings within a certain boundary of Ground Zero.

    And I don’t think the Japanese should be able to own land in Hawaii. Afterall, they bombed the place, killing 2,000 servicepeople and civilians and causing billions in today’s dollars in property damage and trauma. It would be an insult to their memory.

    Not comfortable with the Turks who moved in and bought a grocery store in my neighborhood. Turks invaded Greece, my family’s homeland, and raped, pillaged and plundered for 400 years, nearly wiping out thousands of years of culture. I don’t think they should be able to buy a grocery store in my neighborhood, even if the have the money and it’s legal.

    And, you know what really pisses me off? Jews that built synagogues all over my town and…they killed Jesus! It’s just wrong in so many ways!

    Really!? This is the kind of mental confusion that I think is created on the national stage in order to build careers and bank accounts, not provide leadership. The danger of following opportunists like Sarah Palin, anywhere, is evident.]

    And trust “conservatives” and their media stooges to get all wound up about this. Hypocrites! They want smaller government and governement out of everyone’s lives (except through the bedroom window, of course), want less governmental regulation and intrusion, but have no problem calling for someone to stop a legal, Free Market, Capitalist transaction. I’ll bet if Obama stepped in and said,” No, you cannot build there!,” you’d see signs at the next TP picnic about how Obama’s a socialist and a Marxist and he’s taking away our freedoms and he’s taking control of businesses and he’s treading on the common man.

  4. Stu says:

    Well, yes it is too soon.

    To use your examples, I don’t think the Japanese would have been welcomed with open arms if they wanted to build a Shinto or Buddhist temple 2 blocks from Pearl Harbor 9 years after they bombed it.

    Similarly, 9 years after a 400 year reign of terror in Greece, I’m confident the Turks were still persona non grata there as well.

    But we’re not talking about the Japanese or Turks or Jewish people. The issue we’re discussing is a mosque at ground zero 9 years after the 9/11 attacks. A mosque at ground zero when there’s already several in the area.

    I find it impossible to believe that those wanting this site are unaware of the sensitivities regarding it, and it’s clear they wish to move forward anyway. It’s not out of line for me (or any other American) to voice their feelings that this doesn’t seem appropriate. Just as it’s your right as an American to voice your opposition to that sentiment.

    What I’d really like to know is if the information in the Brit’s video is accurate; if historically, mosques are constructed on conquered gound, and if it’s really being planned for opening next 9/11. If that proved to be true, would it change your opinion any?

  5. BIll says:

    It’s exactly the same in my mind. You want to be able to discriminate based on emotion and not the rule of law or the Constitution or Free Market forces or even Capitalism. Capitalism says that if I own a piece of property and I want to develop it, it’s no one’s business but mine. If I build it in a sensitive place, like a shooting range next to the zoo, I can plan on being avoided like the plague and will probably go out of business.

    I find it curious that political correctness comes into this story about, really, being politically correct in not wanting the Mosque built.

    Frankly, I don’t like it, but I realize that my opinion against a Mosque at Ground Zero is a convenient personal wish, not a legal point. The ACLU helped the Klan parade around Skogee, Illinois, in their stupid bed sheets and Third Reich-looking symbols because it was the legally correct thing to do, not the politically correct thing to do.

    That pesky Consitution keeps getting in the way.

  6. Stu says:

    I hear where you’re coming from, but it’s been a long, long time since property owners were free to do whatever they wanted with their property and/or develop it however they wanted. Zoning ordinances, building codes, etc.

    One probably can’t put an adult book store within a certain proximity of an elementary school. The porn shop might be a legal business, but community sensitivities will lead to local ordinances preventing it. Similar restrictions may apply to bars, gun shops, garbage dumps, wrecking yards, etc. The list goes on and on regarding legal activities that are not allowed to be located within a pre-defined proximity of other places based on rules and regulations that were born simply of community sensitivities and/or opinion.

    But like I said, I hear ya. I’m sure there are no ordinances in NYC that prohibit mosques within a certain proximity of ground zero. In the final analysis it’s up to NYC, it’s residents and their elected officials to determine what’s right for NYC…and if they are OK with the idea then who am I to say differently?

  7. Adam says:

    I know I have a tendency to just jump in an established conversation and might not be understood. As far as my perspective relating to this topic. It has more less been covered in wanting to know if the statements made about the dates and timing of the build having a relation to a possible “Marking of a victory”. If that was proven to be true. I think its with out question that it should not be built.

    I must admit some replies at times I have a hard time understanding the focal point of the perspective. Mostly I have a hard time differentiating at first if it’s someones opinion or their standing on how it is or should be.

    The speaker in the video brings up some real good points about our country. The one I think has a direct connection to our country and our society as a hole, Is the we don’t want to fight for what’s “right”. Granted that again is a problem with perspective through diversity of a people..

    Is what is right for you right for me?

  8. esarsea says:

    According to this article in the NY Post, the 9/11/2011 target opening date is accurate. Ummm, maybe “target” was not the best word to use. Oh well…

    http://www.nypost.com/p/news/national/mosque_madness_at_ground_zero_OQ34EB0MWS0lXuAnQau5uL

  9. torqdog says:

    I truly have mixed feelings on this. On one hand I agree with Bill’s assesment about the rule of law etc. etc. However, I also agree with Stu in that there have been restrictions placed on business as it relates to proximities to schools, hospitals etc. I also believe in the founding of this country being the freedom of religion as well as freedom to assemble.

    The emotional side of me says “hell no”! I can see exactly what they are trying to accomplish and there somehow has to be a way to prevent it from happening.

    I heard something this morning about attempts to list the WTC site as historical and these attempts go back 20 some odd years. Has anyone heard this and if so, ya got any info as to why this hasn’t happened, especially after 9-11? How long did it take to make Pearl Harbor a historic site?

  10. Bill says:

    I don’t know about Pearl Harbor’s designation date, but when I was there last month, a curious scene played out relating to this thread.

    The Islands are full of Asian tourists, mostly Japanese. At Pearl Harbor, there are a handful of tours you can take for the USS Arizona and the newly-mothballed USS Missouri, the battleship that hosted the Japanese surrender of WWII. We took the “Mighty Mo” tour and the tour guide talked about the Japanese being humbled at the signing by taking away swords and making them stand in a certain spot while B-29 bombers circled overhead in case things went sideways, they could go bomb the Japanese mainland.

    Here’s what interesting to me: Japanese tourists shun the battleship tour. There wasn’t one Asian group or individual in our tour. But for the Arizona Memorial, where you walk on a platform over the sunken ship, there were all kinds of Asian/Japanese tourists. The Missouri has symbols and signs and icons painted all over it designating service awards and performance highlights. They painted over the Japanese Zeroes that stood for ships sunk by the Missouri because Japan is our ally now and we don’t want to embarass Japanese tourists. I thought is was stupid. They started a shooting war and we beat them back.

    • Stu says:

      Interesting side note, the Missouri was moored here in my hometown of Bremerton WA most of my life. The Mighty MO was decommissioned in 1955 and made part of the “Mothball” fleet at the Puget Sound Naval Shipyard where my dad worked. I was born in 1956.

      The Missouri was reactivated in 1984 and decommissioned again in 1992 when it again returned to Bremerton. I would drive by it all the time, but kept putting off going on a tour. It had been there my whole life and I just took it for granted. Plus, living near a naval shipyard I was used to seeing all the battleships and carriers so it seemed like no big deal to me…but after it pulled out in 1998 and headed to Hawaii I was really bummed that I never did take the tour.

  11. esarsea says:

    Excellent article on the ground zero mosque from The Middle East Forum:

    http://www.meforum.org/2678/ground-zero-mosque

    • torqdog says:

      That article pretty much confirms the claims made in both videos regarding the Muslim practice of erecting a mosque over a conquered’s most cherished religious shrine. As was pointed out, since we don’t have an “official” religion in this country but rather, worship the mighty Dollar, what more fitting “shrine” to cover than the site of the WTC.

      I wonder……… do we collectively as a nation even have the capability to recognize threats anymore and the fortitude to act? It seems in this case there are as many folks who are “buying” the Muslim line as there are skeptics. And there has been talk that some form of Sharia law “could” be incorporated into our system. WTF?!!!! Has the world gone completely mad? I truly believe it’s gonna take another terrorist event to again bring us together as “one” but will it by then be too late? And like 9-11, how long before the finger pointing squabbles erupt which will in turn, again destroy our resolve.

      • billie789 says:

        And I love the monicker,”Middle East Forum,” like it’s a
        definitive source for good information on all things Middle Eastern.

        If you glance through the links and a couple of pages, it’s a right-leaning, hit-site against all things Muslim.

  12. Bill says:

    What if Sharia law says that if I steal a man’s goat, I have to pay the consequences? Sounds like our law already, doesn’t it? Or are you worried that Viv will be forced to wear a burkha in Reno…in the summer?

    Until you reveal the source of “some say,” I’m not getting my boxers in a wad. I see and hear all kinds of stupid, ill-informed bullshit in the media, especially at the fringes, every day. I love the one this morning that seems to be in vogue this week: Where’s the oil in the Gulf? I mean we’re flying over in helicoptors and can’t see any oil like last week. Where did it go? Is it all gone? Will people’s lives return to normal by next week because we can’t see any oil with our eyes? More on this at 10 along with Debbie Fazzio and our fabulous new weather board! And later, Biff Baff will investigate the neighborhood ice cream man: Dealer of goodies or Socialist Infecting our kids with Nanny State-entitlement hand-outs?

    Now, take a deep breath and repeat after me:”I have taken the time to do my research into this story. At first, I fell for the idiotic rhetoric about a Muslim Mosque AT GROUND ZERO because I only listened to one brand of news. Then, someone on a blog pried open my eyes to the fact that the lot that Muslims want to use for their mosque isn’t AT GROUND ZERO afterall. It’s two blocks up and half a block over. It’s a ten minute walk from the lot to the actual Ground Zero. You cannot see Ground Zero from the proposed Mosque’s location. You’ll be able to see the new buildings at Ground Zero from the Mosque because they will be the tallest buildings in that part of town.

    But that doesn’t matter because I heard from my sources that Muslims like to build their buildings 2 blocks up and a half-block over when they conquer someone’s land. It’s part of the 2 + 1/2 formula Islam uses to
    undermine popular, emotional sentiment. It’s a form of terroism, when they set off a tiny fraction of the population into pearl-clutching Purgatory.

    How’s it working for you so far?

    • Stu says:

      We’re not discussing oil in the gulf…but thanks for the trip down memory lane with Biff Barf in the Biff Barf sportlight spotlight! Don’t forget Al Sleet, the hippie-dippy weatherman!

      2 blocks…whatever. It’s about symbolism. The whole issue revolves around symbolism, and our perceptions of the intent of those wanting to build the mosque there.

      I don’t care how one might spin it, there are many (myself included) who view it as a sort of insensitive and defiant middle finger being raised in our direction. That’s a feeling. That’s an opinion. That’s a perception.

      And I’m ok with myself for having those emotions, and writing about them here.

  13. BIll says:

    It goes without saying, but I’ll say it anyway, that you are free to believe and feel any way you like.

    You say “whatever” to the two-block distance because of the symbolism involved. You gonna ban them from all of New York? Where does your emotion draw the line, at three blocks, four blocks? Are we going to check the ownership and charter of every building and business within a magic circle of unknown size and ban some and allow others? And who decides? Sarah Palin or the citizens of New York?

    I mean, I’m already undressing with total strangers at the airport and arguing with TSA goons about a half-empty, 4 oz bottle of hand sanitizer being only 2 oz. of fluid and not over the dreaded 2.5 oz rule and they seized it and trashed it anyway because the label said it was originally 4 oz. We still fear box cutters and Muslims 10 years later. Maybe after this past Christmas, they’ll start checking my boxers for explosives.

  14. Stu says:

    Your question is a good one. Where would my emotions draw the line? At what distance from ground zero, and how long after the attack?

    I don’t have a good answer for you.

    I can tell you that I have no problem with any of the existing mosques or Islamic centers in the area, including the Assata Islamic Center at 172 Allen Street which is 1.9 miles or 7 minutes away from ground zero, or the Islamic Cultural Center of NY at 1171 3rd Ave which is 5 miles or 16 minutes from ground zero.

    I can’t predict how my opinion might change next month or next year or 5 years form now. All I know is that today, I do not support the idea. But as I stated in a previous post, it’s up to the residents of NYC and their elected officials to decide what’s best for NYC.

    • billie789 says:

      I understand completely. I really do. If I thought there was a shred of evidence that Muslims want to use it to score some bizarre political points or plan terrorist attacks or to mock us, I would say “Hell No!” But in the haze and white noise of the media and its barking dollar-pundit-whores, I can’t find anything of any substance to say, definitively, that this is bad thing.

      As far as organized religion goes, I hate them all. They have caused more pain, murder and suffering than they will ever be worth. If Muslims want to pretend to live in the 12th Century, that’s their supreme misguidance, in my opinion.

      Are we afraid Muslims might build a Mosque in the general vicinity of Ground Zero and then run out into the streets yelling,”Nyah, nyah, nyah, nyah, n-y-a-a-a-h! Gotcha again!”I’m much more concerned that a wealthy Muslim owns part of Fox News and Citicorp. That’s where they can do some real damage to the country.

      And yes, I do have an explosive “package” in my boxers…

  15. torqdog says:

    Well, since we’ve strayed again into the Sheik/Fox thing and the missing oil as well, I figure it’s about time for a commercial break;

    “Jackwagon” LOL!!!

  16. torqdog says:

    Bill, lately you’ve been using “McWordSalad” in your usual attempts to demean Palin. Can you please explain just what McWordSalad is supposed to mean? This is a serious question……. no baiting from me, at least not this time. (snicker, snicker). ;-)

  17. Bill says:

    Nope, not familiar with that blog. I first heard it used by a blogger after she mangled a horrifically-long, run-on sentence about her position on some political point and ended up not explaining anything intelligible. Lots or “this great country of ours” for no particular reason and “regular Americans,” whatever the Hell that means. Empty vessel waiting to be filled.

    It’s a play on the notion that McDonald’s invents stupid shit all the time to sell to patrons. They’ve tried everything from McRib to McStank to McSalads. Palin sells junk food politics that she mangles = McWordsalad.

    Randy, my “usual attempts to demean Palin” sounds like that, too, is bothering you. How about if I just say that she’s a White Trash Grifter from Wasilla. That one I made up. Her father is the one that said recently that she was uncomfortable in Hawaii being around all those “Asian minorities,” not me.

    • torqdog says:

      Yeah Bill…..they’re both kind of one in the same and yes, it’s all starting to really bother me. It’s nothing more than hate filled attempts to diminish opponents and I’m just real tired of it. After the Journolist revelations and the fact that you have a few supposedly “objective” journalists working behind the scenes telling you all first who to hate and then what to say and like lemmings, it suddenly becomes the handed down talking points that you all parrot in unison. I must say, it is a very effective front for eliminating discussion as, once you’ve successfully diminished an opponent’s cred, game over. At times, I kind of get a sense you even try pulling the same tactics on me to a smaller extent.

      I’m just real sick and tired of it as it seems destroying people is more important to you. It seems like a vicious game….. you mock them, make fun of them, demean, vilify and basically do your best to destroy any possibilities that there might be a chance, just a little chance that maybe they might have a valid point or two but nevermind, they TOTALLY suck so anything they might say is to be disregarded as worthless babble. But hey, if that’s the way you like your ice cream, have at it. As far as I’m concerned, there really isn’t much point in having these discussions anymore because they always resort to the usual suspects that you repeatedly love to hate on and for me, it’s becomming an exhausting excercize to have to sift through more of the same old cliche repeats to get to any meat and taters you might be serving up. And demean, besmerch, diminish and hate on them you do all too frequently. I will however say that you, unlike many on your side, do come to the table prepared and do engage in thought provoking discussion when not engaged in the ridiculing hate stuff. Kudos for that Bro.

      Lately, it’s been a real struggle for me to post. Unlike you Bill, I’m no literary genius and putting thought to keyboard can at times be a very tedious chore for me. Add to that the fact that I type at the rate of around 15 words a minute (max) and lately, simple words have all too often been escaping me and it’s starting to get real frustrating. Last night I was formulating a post on another forum and was really struggling trying to think of a word. I had my thoughts cogently organized except for this one word that was a most important part of the text. After beating my brain for ten minutes trying to “find it” I finally gave up and hit the delete button. This morning it popped right out at me……. the word was “instinct” and no other word I could think of could possibly replace it. Has this ever happened to you guys?

      I’ve had a really bad day today. One of the many functions my job calls for is the shutting off people’s gas for non-payment (DNP). It’s a task I absolutely can’t stand but being that with the economy in the state it’s in, I can’t afford to refuse these assignments and lose my job as it pays well. Today, one of my first orders was a DNP and as a courtesy, I knocked on the door to see if they could get the bill paid today. This is something the company frowns upon and the reasons will be evidenced shortly. Anyway, a gal answers the door, I announce why I’m there and asked if she could make a payment today to which she replied no, she wasn’t going to receive her unemployment check until next Thursday. At about this time, her boyfriend starts mouthing off from inside the room to which I ignored as I informed her that unfortunately, I had no choice but to disconnect service. She seemed OK with that but the boyfriend obviously wasn’t. So around I go to the back of the house where the meter was located and sure enough, here comes the confrontational boyfriend out to give me a piece of his mind. I could go into details but let’s just say that it was a very unpleasant and uncomfortable position he put me in. After five solid minutes of being berated, I felt like saying “my knocking on the door was a courtesy that is discouraged by the company just for this reason and would you like to apologize to the 17 people I have left on my list that WON’T be getting a courtesy knock today because of you”? I didn’t say it as that would have done nothing but fan his already leaping flames.. My guess as to why he might be unemployed revolve around his extremely confrontational mannerisms. I could easily see him mouthing off to a customer or his Boss, bottom line is there is a reason some folks are basically unhireable and I ran into one of em today.

      Sorry for the off topic rambling rant….. I just had to get it off my chest.

    • torqdog says:

      That was funny and I mean that. For satire to be effective, there has to be an element of truth and there was a whole lot of truth there though I’m not quite sure who the two big “puppets” are supposed to be.

      Good find!

  18. billie789 says:

    This from TPM about (gasp!) a mosque and Sharia Law coming to California and the country…you can guess what affiliation the woman has.

    “Let’s get one thing straight, Diane Serafin told me this afternoon — the people (and their dogs) protesting a planned mosque in Temecula, California tomorrow are not bigots. It’s not Muslims per se that they have a problem with — it’s the fact that Imams are slowly infiltrating American society, hoping to force Sharia law on us all.

    Muslim construction projects have been the subject of public protests nationwide these days (as we’ve reported), but Serafin’s demonstration is different from all the rest. She’s calling on people to bring their dogs and join in song tomorrow afternoon because, she told me, Muslims just hate dogs and songs. Of course, Muslim antipathy toward canines isn’t their worst offense, she told me.

    “They hate Jews, they hate Chrisitans, they hate women, they hate dogs,” Serain said. “[The idea of the new mosque] scares the daylights out of me.”

    Still, Serafin insisted she’s no bigot.

    “I want you to stress this — I’m not prejudiced,” Serafin told me. “I worked retail for nine years and I didn’t even know my manager was gay until someone told me. And when I found out, I didn’t care.”

    Serafin is a tea party organizer in Murrieta, California — and the woman who’s helping to spread the word about tomorrow’s protest, which she says will see Christians gather outside a mosque in the Riverside County area. (The Muslims who worship at that site have been planning to build a new mosque and community center in Temecula since 2000.) Serafin runs an area tea party website, which she told me she’s used to help spread the word about tomorrow’s demonstration.

    Here’s what’s really behind the Temecula mosque according to Serafin: America-hating imams are planning to build mosques “in every Christian city” so they can influence local politics, undermine our legal system and impose Sharia law on us all.

    Serafin said when I asked why local officials in Temecula haven’t put the brakes on this nefarious plot by shutting down construction plans at the mosque.

    “They feel there’s religious freedom,” she said. “And I know it’s there in the Constitution and everything, but everything I read says Islam is a political movement.”

    “I think there’s a movement going on in the United States to take over our country,” she added.

    With the government not lending a hand, Serafin says that it’s up to protesters like her to step up. Step up and sing. Step up and sing with their dogs nearby.

    “It’s a dream,” she said when I asked about her confidence that the increasing numbers of protests against the mosque will work and shut down the project. “I don’t know that we can do it, but if we can make people aware maybe we can slow down this movement of Islam into the country.”

    Serafin said she can’t predict how many people are going to make it to the protest, but knows what will happen when it starts.

    “They hate song,” she said of Muslims. “So we’re going to sing patriotic songs, Christian songs.

    “God Bless America will be one,” Serafin added.

    • Stu says:

      This is an entirely different dynamic than the ground zero discussion IMO.

      But I loved the quote: “I want you to stress this — I’m not prejudiced. I worked retail for nine years and I didn’t even know my manager was gay until someone told me. And when I found out, I didn’t care.” WTF does that have to do with anything? She says that as if it makes her somehow special or having more credibility. I suspect she’s a little homophobic.

      It’s like when some white guy says, “Hey! I have a lot of black friends!” Feeling the need to express that is ususally is the first tell-tale sign that the person does have prejudical tendencies.

    • torqdog says:

      They would have gotten better results by leaving the dogs at home and substituting Pigs. ;-)

  19. Bill says:

    The dynamic, for me, is very familiar. It’s a demonization of ALL of Islam, not just the violent radicals. This is a gang-bang against Muslims.

    And make no mistake, I think Islam, along with 99% of other organized religions, creates its own problems trying to be the “only religion” in touch with any gods or prophets.

    To me, it’s like Ford saying their trucks are better than Chevy. Requires a huge emotional and financial investment and your milegage may vary.

    The way most organized religion considers women is a crime. And a shame. It’s just universal, paternal control over women. This is no kidding: I could shoot a man bewteen the eyes who beats his wife or cuts off her nose or kills her for breaking a religious rule. Or for trying to go to school or trying to find work. When these idiots say that a woman trying to better herself is an embarassment to the head of the household, a man, my blood boils.

    So, no, I’m not defending Islam or any opther religion that dictates modern life through a lens that’s thousands of years old.

    • torqdog says:

      Why do you think that is……. that being ALL religions treating women as second class citizens? Some would point to advancements in Christian circles with some denominations allowing women pastors etc. but that has only happened in the last 40 or 50 years and came about only because of societal pressures.

      In fact, let me add that it’s not just religion but almost every culture at one time or another has had a male chauvanism aspect to their societies.

  20. Bill says:

    Well I don’t know why, really. While there are some progressive churches that allow women to become ministers and priests, most don’t. The Catholic Church looked the other way for decades while “Priests Gone Wild” was a pedophilia circus. But, they will not allow women to become priests. The LDS Church changed its mind back in the 70’s to allow black men to hold their precious “priesthood,” but not women, nope, uh-uh.

    I’ve never heard any explanation, insane or otherwise, about why women are second-class citizens. Upper body strength is a factor in some employment settings and some military environments, but otherwise, it’s a sham foisted on women by men.

    Muslims treat women very badly. The question, at some point, has to be asked: Why would you stay in a religion that treats you like shit, by design, not by accident?

  21. Stu says:

    NY Governor offers to help find new location for proposed ground zero mosque:

    http://www.comcast.net/articles/news-general/20100810/US.Ground.Zero.Mosque.Paterson/

  22. torqdog says:

    This is definitely one for the WTF dept;

    Obama’s State Department Bankrolls Ground Zero Imam Rauf’s Middle East Fundraising Tour: “US Muslim Engagement”

    So where’s all the usual liberal outrage regarding separation of church and state? With this administration, I guess it need only apply to Christians.

    http://atlasshrugs2000.typepad.com/atlas_shrugs/2010/08/obamas-state-department-bankrolls-ground-zero-imam-raufs-middle-east-fundraising-tour-us-muslim-enga.html

    • billie789 says:

      So, we’re at war in two countries inhabited by Muslims. There are only about 1.5 Billion Muslims in the world compared to what, 300 million Americans. Thanks to years of our meddling in the internal affairs of most of those sovereign countries to either stick a screwdriver in the Soviet Union’s spokes or to access OIL, the anger peaks with Bushco, and they all blame us for everything wrong in their respective countries.

      We get together with an influential Muslim cleric and he represents our interests in a multi-country tour. Wow.

      When I voted for Obama, one of the things that he said on the campaign trail that stuck with me was that he was going to actually “TALK” to the countries and leaders who have it out for us.

      What a fucking concept. I think it’s called diplomacy.

      • torqdog says:

        Well, now I am surprised……. surprised your comeback didn’t include the fact that we’ve been paying in one form or another for muslim outreach since the days of Bush. Are you slippin or had you not heard that?

        And yeah, “diplomacy” huh? Seems like all we’ve done is piss-off our allies and tried to make nicey nice with our enemies. We’ve become the laughing stock in many countries due to the obvious inexperience Obama brings to the table. It’s pretty sad when our POTUS is ALWAYS the least experienced person in any room. I agree that sometimes talking is warranted but sometimes talk is cheap. If you think that we can all just get along if we just talk and play nice, you’re unfortunately not fully understanding how some minds work.

      • torqdog says:

        And Bill, I almost forgot, where’s your outrage regarding the separation between church and state. The Muslim religion is not a nation, not a country, IT”S A RELIGION!!!

        More double standards?

  23. esarsea says:

    Islamic Gay Bar next to ground zero mosque? I just post ’em folks, I couldn’t make this stuff up…

    http://www.sodahead.com/united-states/an-islamic-gay-bar-next-to-ground-zero-mosque-greg-gutfeld-says-yes/question-1142561/

  24. billie789 says:

    Gay muslims? Not likely. Dead Muslims is more like it if it’s determined that you are gay.

    I think this kind of humor is called Double-Intolerance. Against Muslims AND gay people.

  25. Stu says:

    Well, give me a minute…I’m sure I can find another maligned group to poke fun at. Oops! I said “Poke” (insert Beevis and Butthead laugh)

  26. torqdog says:

    Maybe if they just name the bar Al Gayda they’ll leave ’em alone. ;-)

  27. Bill says:

    “Al Gayda”…that’s priceless! I think I went to high school with him.

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