Why Liberals Don’t Get The Tea Party Movement

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October 20, 2010 by esarsea

I read an interesting Op Ed piece this morning by Peter Berkowitz in the (online) Wall Street Journal. The full text of the article is available here.

Subtitle:

“Our universities haven’t taught much political history for decades. No wonder so many progressives have disdain for the principles that animated the Federalist debates.”

Excerpt #1

“To be sure, the tea party sports its share of clowns, kooks and creeps. And some of its favored candidates and loudest voices have made embarrassing statements and embraced reckless policies. This, however, does not distinguish the tea party movement from the competition.

Born in response to President Obama’s self-declared desire to fundamentally change America, the tea party movement has made its central goals abundantly clear. Activists and the sizeable swath of voters who sympathize with them want to reduce the massively ballooning national debt, cut runaway federal spending, keep taxes in check, reinvigorate the economy, and block the expansion of the state into citizens’ lives.

In other words, the tea party movement is inspired above all by a commitment to limited government. And that does distinguish it from the competition.”

Excerpt #2

“Neither professors of political science nor of history have made a priority of instructing students in the founding principles of American constitutional government. Nor have they taught about the contest between the progressive vision and the conservative vision that has characterized American politics since Woodrow Wilson (then a political scientist at Princeton) helped launch the progressive movement in the late 19th century by arguing that the Constitution had become obsolete and hindered democratic reform.

Then there are the proliferating classes in practical ethics and moral reasoning. These expose students to hypothetical conundrums involving individuals in surreal circumstances suddenly facing life and death decisions, or present contentious public policy questions and explore the range of respectable progressive opinions for resolving them. Such exercises may sharpen students’ ability to argue. They do little to teach about self-government.

They certainly do not teach about the virtues, or qualities of mind and character, that enable citizens to shoulder their political responsibilities and prosper amidst the opportunities and uncertainties that freedom brings. Nor do they teach the beliefs, practices and associations that foster such virtues and those that endanger them.”

I posted this simply because I know we’ve had some discussions here wondering what the TP was about, what their “platform” was, etc. It’s not my intent to argue either side of the movement, for or against. I’m still listening, learning, and sorting through my own thoughts. I was however intrigued by the author’s theories regarding higher education…

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27 thoughts on “Why Liberals Don’t Get The Tea Party Movement

  1. BIll says:

    (whistle, whistle,whistle) Doo, dah, doobie-doobie doo wah. . .Nope. Not gunna do it.

    Although I’m shocked that a WSJ writer would drag out that decades-old rag soaked in “you don’t know anything if you went to college and listened to them damn librul professors.” I’m sure he went to a college and listened to those damn librul professors.

    This past week, we’ve witnessed what happens when a TP candidate who didn’t go to school, calls herself a “constitutional scholar,” and didn’t know that the First Amendment states that there will be no religion established by the state (Separation of church and state clause).

    Berkowitz would have better spent his time writing about how the Tea Party has promoted and supported a total embarassment like Christine O’Donnell rather that hypothesizing why college-educated people didn’t get enough Constitutional training because their professors were bad guys.

    Seems like kind of a high-class problem.

  2. Stu says:

    The 1st ammendment does state the government will not make any laws establishing a religion or preventing one, but I thought the “Separation of Church and State” thing came along later…in the 40’s after some supreme court ruling or something?

    O’Donnell simply asked, “Where in the constitution does it say separation of church and state?” Technically, it doesn’t – although admittedly the concept may be there.

    It’s a sore spot with me because my wife’s “state” school, which of course has banned prayer, etc. currently allows a church group to meet in the building on the weekends. If they are renting the building to the church group, the school is profiting from the church. Not so separate it seems! And if the school is giving the church the space for free, then the church is profiting from the school. Not so separate that way either.

    It’s really no skin off my nose either way, but philosophically speaking, I don’t like how the state can have their cake and eat it too. In fact it irritates the shit out of me every time I think about it. If the government wants God out of the public school system, they shouldn’t be making a buck off him (or helping him out) on the weekends.

    • torqdog says:

      Stu said;
      “The 1st ammendment does state the government will not make any laws establishing a religion”

      Christine O’Donnell was correct in asking just where in the 1st ammendment does it specifically mention separation of church and state. The founders wisely stated in the language of “establish” that we would not sanction any one religion as the official religion of the U.S. When you think of where they were coming from at the time (England) and the repressive laws towards any other religion than that santioned by the King, it all makes perfect sense.

      I find it interesting that Coons couldn’t answer the question posed by Christine to list the five freedoms awarded in the 1st ammendment. For someone of Coon’s stature, that should have been a no-brainer and it also should have drawn more ire from the press that he couldn’t answer the question. I’m sure that if the tables had been turned and it was O’Donnell who couldn’t answer such a simple constitutional question, the press would have been all over it and SNL would have another week’s worth of script. ;-)

      • Bill says:

        Let’s not paint an elephant black and call it a bull with horns in an unconventional placement, ok? She blew it, plain and simple and it was only after her handlers and Fox analysts coached her to say that she knew about the 1st amendment, but just cunningly wanted to get Coons to explain exactly where the words,”Separation of Church and State” were located, like she was a scholar who caught him messing up.

        The 1st Amendment makes the rule and it’s been considered the part of the Constitution that delivers the Separation of Church and State to the people. The concept, not the words. If she knew a tiny sliver of what she claims to know about the Constitution, she would have known that. She could have said,”Coons, you ignorant slut! Everyone knows that the 1st Amendment prohibits a state-endorsed religion being foisted on the people, but IT DOES NOT SAY THE WORDS SEPARATION OF CHURCH AND STATE!”

        But she didn’t do that did she? She ran around for a couple of days getting coached on how to explain her ignorant comments.

        But then, sadly, it turns out that her Constitutional training consists of a single, 7-day seminar she attended once. At least she says she attended it. She has actually stated that she’s a trained Constitutional expert.

        It doesn’t matter because she’s all done.

      • torqdog says:

        Interesting! You make it sound like Fox news was coaching her DURING the debate? How so?

        You’re right about one thing……. that she IS done. I do find it strange however that the Dems are spending so much time and capital on a race that is “finished”.

    • billie789 says:

      Stu…Hahahahaha! I live in Utah, where the LDS Church buys property and builds classrooms in the parking lots, literally, and just across the steets from high schools all over the state where good Mormon students can attend something called “Seminary” each day of school. They can’t get class credit for it, but if you are LDS and want to stay in good standing, you go to seminary the way you go to math and gym and history class.

      I wonder what these white bread bee-atches would do if Muslims or even Presbyterians wanted to build a “seminary” building in our high school parking lots.

      • torqdog says:

        You do live in an anomaly Bill. We thought about retiring in St. George but after investigating and hearing some of the backwards crap you have to put up with in Utah, we changed our mind. I do like the idea of being an hour or two from five of the most beautiful National Parks in the country. Maybe Mesquite Nevada will fit the bill.

  3. torqdog says:

    Funny that today of all days you bring this up Stu. Michael Barone, not known as a flaming “wingnut” just came out with an article today called;

    Tea party neophytes outshine the Dems’ old pros

    Read more at the Washington Examiner: http://www.washingtonexaminer.com/politics/Tea-party-neophytes-outshine-the-Dems_-old-pros-1265483-105284738.html#ixzz12wjqlmX7

    • Bill says:

      You mean THIS Michael Barone, Randy? : From Think Progress: “Journalist” Michael Barone – Barone’s Koch Meeting Money: Barone is a Resident Fellow at the American Enterprise Institute — a think tank/trade association well represented at the Koch Meeting — which according to its 990 tax forms, compensates fellows in the $100,000-range. Right-wing billionaire Phil Anschutz, a Koch Meeting participant, owns and subsidizes the Washington Examiner, where Barone is a paid contributor. Earlier this year, Barone was given the “Bradley Prize,” a $250,000 no-strings-attached gift just for being a loyal conservative. Several Koch Meeting businessmen are active with the Bradley Foundation, and Koch Meeting participant Dennis Kuester, a retired bank executive, helped select Barone for the gift. The Bradley Foundation, managed by former Republican National Committee counsel Michael Grebe, is endowed with nearly $500 million dollars from the wealth of deceased industrialist Harry Bradley, a proud John Birch Society member who came under fire for systematically discriminating against African Americans and women in his factories.

      – Barone’s Reflexive Defense Of Koch, Secret Corporate Money: Barone enjoys wide distribution of his views through a paid punditry position at Fox News and a syndicated column through Human Events, the Washington Examiner, National Review, and other publications. And Barone has used his media platform to willingly distorted ThinkProgress’ investigation of the U.S. Chamber of Commerce’s foreign fundraising, while also praising the influence of secret corporate money in the 2010 elections. Dismissing the influence of secret corporate cash (like his own), Barone scoffed at “Obamaites” for conjuring a “19th-century caricatures of fat cats.” Barone often uses his columns to mock the poor, and, assists his benefactors by sliming financial and clean energy reform.

      • torqdog says:

        I thought I’d seen Barone numerous times on CNN doing election analysis. Anyway, he is highly regarded by both sides as being probably more knowledgable of all 435 congressional districts than anyone else.

        Funny, you chose to again vilify in your attempt to diminish the validity of the author rather than respond to the article. See my post down below as I’m pretty much done with this kind of nonsense. In my opinion, it’s pointless but I know how much these tactics mean to you so carry on. Myself, I’m gonna try and focus more towards positive thought as all this encouraged negativity seems pointless anymore.

  4. Jane says:

    http://www.teapartynationalism.com/
    “We know the majority of Tea Party supporters are sincere, principled people of good will. That is why the NAACP—an organization that has worked to expose and combat racism in all its forms for more than 100 years—is thankful Devin Burghart, Leonard Zeskind and the Institute for Research & Education on Human Rights prepared this report that exposes the links between certain Tea Party factions and acknowledged racist hate groups in the United States. These links should give all patriotic Americans pause.

    I hope the leadership and members of the Tea Party movement will read this report and take additional steps to distance themselves from those Tea Party leaders who espouse racist ideas, advocate violence, or are formally affiliated with white supremacist organizations. In our effort to strengthen our democracy and ensure rights for all, it is important that we have a reasoned political debate without the use of epithets, the threat of violence, or the resurrection of long discredited racial hierarchies.”

  5. torqdog says:

    I find it VERY interesting from a timing standpoint that 13 days out from the election, the NAACP AGAIN decides to throw down the race card with in essence, NO NEW INFORMATION from the last attempt.

    I think what’s really disturbing to those on the left is that the TP has been making some pretty big upsets this election cycle. From Brown in Mass to O’Donnell’s upset over Castle to the Alaska race to Feingold in Wis. to Angle here in Nevada, the list goes on and on. Even some in the Repub heiarchy are getting nervous as the TP have proven to be an uncontrollable force and the “powers that be” hate not being in control. Continuous attempts by the left to demonize and vilify for the sake of trying to diminish the TP have all but failed. Now you have the likes of Michael Barone and other MSM journalists writing articles putting the TP in a more favorable light.

    Time will tell whether the TP has staying power but it appears at this moment in time that the TP is gonna be a force that has to be reckoned with…….. by both parties. You can thank Barack Obama for that.

  6. billie789 says:

    And yet, just last night from Texas: The King Street Patriots, the local Tea Party organization, is getting some unwanted attention this morning.

    “Voter Registration Group Targeted By TX Tea Party Group Received Threats

    A group trying to register voters in Houston received threats and emails containing racist slurs after being targeted by a local tea party group accusing it of “voter fraud.”

    In emails obtained by TPM, the group Houston Votes was accused of being “a bunch of white guilt-ridden assholes, NIGGERS and greasy mexican spics,” “fraudulent Marxist pigs,” and “American hating A-holes.”

    “We received a couple of threats and several harassing e-mails,” Maureen Haver of Houston Voters told TPMMuckraker. “There have been several efforts, I think, just trying to race-bait and stir racial tension and part of that I think is just based on what we’ve received in messaging from them.”

    “It’s really had a chilling effect on our office,” said Haver, adding that one of the e-mails was reported to the FBI.

    You can read the emails at TPM’s site. They’re not safe for work.

    And lest we think this is just some unaffiliated cranks:
    King Street Patriots leader Catherine Engelbrecht even went as far to as to accuse the group of being the headquarters of the New Black Panther Party.
    The good news is that the Tea partiers don’t have a racist bone in their bodies. Just ask them They’ll tell you so. (It’s just the “bad ones” they don’t like.)

    And from TPM:
    True The Vote also put together a video raising the threat of voter fraud which features soaring music. “Think it can’t happen in your town? Think again!” reads one message. “Our elections are being manipulated. By the RADICAL LEFT,” the video says.

    The video originally featured a doctored photo of an African-American voter holding a poorly photoshopped sign — featuring Comic Sans font — that read “I only got to vote once.” That part of the video has since been edited out.”

    No one is making The King Street Retards behave this way, not anyone on the left or the right. No one reported it long after the fact to influence an upcoming election. They know what time of the month it is, that we’re nearing an election and did it anyway. You can’t blame the NAACP or SIEU or George Soros.

    They’re just racist assholes, garden variety, all on their own.

    • torqdog says:

      I’m not gonna get into another “I know you are but what am I” debate here Bill. I’ll just simply refrain to “enjoy the election”. ;-)

      • Bill says:

        Well, the only reason I put that up, honestly, is because it’s not the old “isolated nutball” that conservative media always assigns to a dangerous, bigoted wanker with a gun who listens to Glenn Beck or Vannity. It’s a Texas chapter of the Tea Party trying to foist a little voter intimidation out there. (Oooooh! Remember that evil SIEU and the Panthers? Ooooooh!Where’s the outrage now, Fox News?) And they are apparently proud to behave that way. Because I like you and you seem very sincere and concerned about the racial profile of the Tea Party, I wanted you to see what I see in forming my ever-evolving opinions.

        As far as November, Randy, I hope the Repubs take back Congress. I’m sick of defending Obama and would love to be on the side that’s standing around with it’s finger in its butt, tapping my foot and looking at a stop watch waiting for them to cure all the shit that you and they say they can fix. Otheriwse, it’ll be a majority with no plans, no rudder, no leaders, no policies and a recent history of being the reason we are where we are today. It’ll be Christmas come early for late night comedians and others who observe politics. The way that TP/Repubs are either flaming-out or consuming each other cannot be a good omen for the two years they’ll have to prove themselves, like they gave Obama, before the 2012 elections are here. What do you think will happen then, with Obama looking like Jesus against the greedheads in the market place with an “R” next to their names and NOTHING has changed because of partisan Congressional grid-lock over what f*cking color the drapes in the Capitol Building’s restrooms should be and then, there are Darrell Issa’s planned list of “investigations?”

        And the American people will be watching 24/7.

        And, come 2012, all this will have been a total and completely insane waste of time, set us back 2 wasted years and torn apart the country from within.

        Hooray for November! Yay!

      • torqdog says:

        Yeah, gotta agree with ya on a Repub take over. I’m not sure they really know the firestorm that will ensue the day and months after as the folks are beyond pissed. I do know that the majority of Americans as witnessed in poll after poll after poll have rejected the “major transformation of America” now that they know exactly what it means. I truly don’t think that most of the mind numb robots that voted for “hope and change” knew what the Dems really had in mind and if the Dems were honest about their intentions, would it have even made a difference in the volatile, anti Repub sentiment that was present at the time.

        Anyway, I’m really getting tired of arguing the same old points over and over. You and I both know each other’s positions quite well by now. The Juan Williams/NPR crap has given me a new crystal clear view as to what the real differences between the left and right are and frankly, I’m tired of all the game playing, gotchas, demonizing and vilifying for the purpose of diminishing the opponent, lack of tolerance (a biggie) and just all the extreme negativity just so honest debate on issues can be avoided. I’m sure YMMV so continue as you were if it makes you feel………….. mo betta.

        Anyway, that’s it and do enjoy your trip to DC. I wish I could be there too. Should be allot of fun.

  7. Jane says:

    Ten Questions for Tea Partiers:

    Here are ten questions for Tea Partiers that they want or do not want to answer. I say it this way because people who call themselves Tea Partiers do not have the same view of politics, government, Big Business or the Constitution. Their opinions range from pure Libertarian to actively furthering the privileges of plutocracy. Their income and occupational background vary as well, though most seem to be middle-income and up.

    My guess is that most Tea Partiers come from the conservative wing of the Republican Party who are fed up with both the corporate Republicans like Bush and Cheney, as well as the Democrats like Barack Obama and Nancy Pelosi.

    With the above in mind, the following questions can serve to go beyond abstractions and generalizations of indignation and get to some more specific responses.

    1. Can you be against Big Government and not press for reductions in the vast military budgets, fraught with bureaucratic and large contractors’ waste, fraud and abuse? Military spending now takes up half of the federal government’s operating budgets. The libertarian Cato Institute believes that to cut deficits, we have to also cut the defense budget.

    2. Can you believe in the free market and not condemn hundreds of billions of dollars of corporate welfare-bailouts, subsidies, handouts, and giveaways?

    3. Can you want to preserve the legitimate sovereignty of our country and not reject the trade agreements known as NAFTA and GATT (The World Trade Organization in Geneva, Switzerland) that scholars have described as the greatest surrender of local, state and national sovereignty in our history?

    4. Can you be for law and order and not support a bigger and faster crackdown on the corporate crime wave, that needs more prosecutors and larger enforcement budgets to stop the stealing of taxpayers and consumer dollars so widely reported in the Wall Street Journal and Business Week? Law enforcement officials estimate that for every dollar for prosecution, seventeen to twenty dollars are returned.

    5. Can you be against invasions of privacy by government and business without rejecting the provisions of the Patriot Act that leave you defenseless to constant unlawful snooping, appropriation of personal information and even search of your home without notification until 72 hours later?

    6. Can you be against regulation of serious medical malpractice (over 100,000 lives lost a year, according to a study by Harvard physicians), unsafe drugs that have serious side effects or cause the very injury/illness they were sold to prevent, motor vehicles with defective brakes, tires and throttles, contaminated food from China, Mexico and domestic processors?

    7. Can you keep calling for Freedom and yet tolerate control of your credit and other economic rights by hidden and arbitrary credit ratings and credit scores? What Freedom do you have when you have to sign industry-wide fine print one-sided “contracts” with your banks, insurance companies, car dealers, and credit card companies? Many of these contracts even block your Constitutional access to the courthouse.

    8. Can you be for a new, clean system of politics and elections and still accept the Republican and Democratic Two Party dictatorship that is propped up by complex state laws, frivolous litigation and harassment to exclude from the ballot third parties and independent candidates who want reform, accountability, and stronger voices for the voters?

    9. If you want a return to our Constitution—its principles of limited and separation of power and its emphasis on “We the People” in its preamble—can you still support Washington’s wars that have not been declared by Congress (Article I Section 8) or giving corporations equal rights with humans plus special privileges and immunities. The word “corporation” or “company” never appears in the Constitution. How can you support eminent domain powers given by governments to corporations over homeowners, or massive week-end bailouts by the Federal Reserve and Treasury Department of businesses, even reckless foreign banks, without receiving the authority and the appropriations from the Congress, as the Constitution requires?

    10. You want less taxation and lower deficits. How can you succeed unless you stop big corporations from escaping their fair share of taxes by manipulating foreign jurisdictions against our tax laws, for example, or by letting trillions of dollars of speculation on Wall Street go without any sales tax, while you pay six, seven or eight percent sales tax on the necessities you buy in stores?

    Let’s hear from you Tea Partiers. Meanwhile, see the work of video-journalist, Steve Ference, who has interviewed and given voice to those among you in his new paperback “Voices of the Tea Party” published by Lulu.com on July 4, 2010. Contact VoicesoftheTeaParty@gmail.com.

    http://www.nader.org/index.php?/archives/2217-Ten-Questions-for-Tea-Partiers.html

  8. Becky says:

    Awesome, Jane. I obviously don’t spend as much time ingesting the news or researching politics as all of you, but what I’ve seen and heard from the TP since it’s beginnings has been scary. They appear to be rebels without a cause that want to believe their country and rights are being “‘taken away” and they must fight to get them back as the “Founding Fathers” did during the Revolution. Silly and frightening. Yeah, I’m a bit Liberally biased. Go Feingold!

  9. Bill says:

    “Funny, you chose to again vilify in your attempt to diminish the validity of the author rather than respond to the article.”

    Uh, no, I was just pointing out that your “journalist” Marone, in publishing a story about how TPer’s are somehow “outshining” their old Demo counterparts,” is a paid shill, not a credentialed reporter. Jeff Gannon much?

    I can’t respond to an article written by a paid-for hack who works for a Koch-clique billionaire who owns Marone’s newspaper and they all lean TP and further to the right fringe. Why would I read it if he’s not on my reading list? I wouldn’t normally read a guy like this any more than I would join the Tea Party and say that I’d like Social Security or the Dept of Education to disappear.

    I mean, if I link a story by Janeane Garafolo or Michael Moore or Lawrence O’Brien that I think is central to a discussion, are you going to read it? I don’t think so.

    I don’t understand why you keep taking your political ball and going home, Randy. You post these links taking shots at Dems and Libs and then if one of us responds with an “in-kind” donation, you start pointing your finger at the “nonesense” and talk about how tired you are of the whole thing.

    Let me just say this and then you can have the last word, if you like: If you are a self-defining member of the Tea Party, you’re in for a thrashing from most of the country from here on out. You can celebrate your victories and your “momentum” and your mark made on American politics. But don’t get your feelings hurt when people tell you how they feel about the movement, its corporate backer/funders, it’s non-leaders and TPer’s almost universal willingness to support and vote for policy and players that are clearly not in your own best interest just to poke Barack Obama in the eye. I mean, there’s talk about how Barack is the Rodney Dangerfield of politics, but I think it’s the TP. The only people who respect the TP are the TPers and scared Republicans.

    I certainly don’t want to hurt your feelings or make you angry, Randy. I’ll say a prayer for you at The Rally to Restore Sanity, my friend. Except I’m an atheist, so there may be a money-back guarantee on the prayer.

  10. torqdog says:

    I keep taking my political ball home for two reasons. First and foremost, I’m tired of the political game you are constantly playing. Sure, I would love to debate with you on something like…… let’s say, why you are for implementing Keynesian economics in this country and why I think empowering the individual is a better solution for the long haul. But we never get there because it always comes down to a discussion revolving around the politics of personal destruction. I know exactly what motivates this behaviour…….. in a nutshell, destroying the opposition allows you to avoid debate by disqualifying the person putting forth ideas that go counter to your own thereby letting you off the hook (see above in your last post). An added benefit is that in the process of “taking them out”, you set it up so that future discussions are not neccessary due to the non-worth of the opposing party. Alinsky lays it all out beautifully in his manifesto.

    I tried to think up an analogy and this is the best I could come up with; let’s pretend that this is a football game and the libs have home field advantage. This of course means that the conservs have got to take a jet to play the game. But rather than wanting to play the game, the libs try to make sure that the plane never leaves the airport by whatever means neccessary.

    Rather than debate on the grid-iron of ideas, the left has found it’s mission to be one of destroying any conservative that comes along with palatable ideas that go counter to what the left has in mind. Sarah Palin, Michele Bachmann, Newt Gingrich, Glenn Beck, Rush Limbaugh to name a few, the list goes on and on with Christine O’Donnell as your latest target. They’re all “extreme” or better yet, “dangerous”! Frankly the only conservative making good noise that hasn’t come under fire is Paul Ryan but I’m sure that’s about to change with the Repub house take over. Conservatives, for the most part don’t play these games. I’m sure there are exceptions to the rule but they are far and few between. Conservative criticism is mostly revolved around ideology and policy, not so much personality.

    Saul Alinsky stated in his infamous liberal operations manual, “Rules for Radicals” that “the ends justify the means”. I frankly am sick and tired of that crap as it makes everything murky with stuff that really has no real bearing on policy. Let the war be a fair fight on the battlefield of ideas. I’m an “ideas” kind of guy. Love debating ideas, ideology and policy. All this personality stuff that seems to be a left wing obsession, to me is pointless. It’s negativity run amok and it just doesn’t feel right! But that seems to be the direction you head most every time so yeah, my ball is out of play for the time being.

    If you happen to read this before the rally, think about this…………. when you’re there listening to all the inspirational speeches, keep a count of how many are based on the differences of ideology and policy vs. how many are just more mean spirited demonizations and bashing of the usual conservative suspects. My bet is that most will fall under category #2. Also, look at how much garbage is left behind. The whole world will be watching. They say that when ever Democrats gather, either at rallies like this one or in the halls of Govt, they always make a mess. ;-) Anyway, Glen Beck’s Restoring Honor rally was all positive and uplifting. No tearing people down, no making fun of the opposition. It will be interesting to see the stark differences in both crowd and attitude.

    The other reason to pull my ball is I am in the self imposed penalty box. I just haven’t been all that motivated and I think it shows in some of my posts. I’ve always operated on the belief that if you can’t put out a good product, stay out of the game. It may be temporary only to be determined by what kind of posts and threads show up and whether I find myself inspired enough to answer in kind.

    Peace Beatches! :-)

  11. Bill says:

    Fuck, Randy. Garbage, seriously?

    And Saul Alinsky? Let me repeat as many times as is necessary: I’ve never read the guy’s stuff, Randy, but it sounds like you are extremely well-versed. And I wonder how you got so well-versed in something I know nothing about and you can quote page and verse, practically?

    The garbage comment only confirms that you listen and read the most outrageously irrelevant, partisan, unreliable, attack-dog sources out there. The garbage comment is like a tattoo from the right and you wear it well, my friend. I have a conservative relative who posted on FB that because the Marines are hosting a marathon in DC the day after the rally, they locked the Porta-potties they are setting up for race entrants to, in his words, “protect the Constitution from its enemies, both foreign and domestic.” He thought he was being really funny.

    It’s funny. The only people I read or hear that are concerned this is a partisan event are conservatives. Funny and hypocritical because you’ll stand in the wind and dust in Searchlight and listen to Sarah Palin attack our war-time president amid the cheers of other “patriots.” But if we get together in Washington to Restore Sanity, to be reasonable, to help crank it back a notch, somehow it’s a negative, partisan thing. Project much? One of my signs says,”I Made A Stupid Sign!” Is that partisan? Only if you made a stupid partisan sign once.

    • torqdog says:

      Well…… soooooooo much for “the last word”! Nice, but after “the last word” I laid before you, I was half expecting some sort of comeback. If the tables were turned, I prolly would have been tempted but also would have most likely kept my word.

      You keep saying that you know nothing about Alinsky. Maybe you don’t but the folks you are in agreement with I can guaran-damn-tee you do. The Alinsky style tactics that have been in play for some 40 plus years are a staple of liberal debating tactics and believe it or not, you use them all the time. Maybe you should at least ed-you-ma-cate yourself and do some research. At least then you’ll have a clue as to what I’m referencing.

      Me? Partisan? ……….. so what?!!! Are you gonna sit there and tell me with a straight face that you’re not? Really?!!! All the stuff you post comes from partisan sources and the fact that you relay it here on the blog doesen’t make you some sort of Independent. Crooks and Liars, Media Matters?…… Puhleeze!!! Let me say this so you understand……. THERE IS NOTHING WRONG WITH BEING PARTISAN, PERIOD!!! And here’s another revelation from accusations you’ve repeatedly made. I’m NOT a Tea Party member! Again, the way you throw around the accusation, it’s like you are trying to demonize due to their villainous stature you and cohorts have created in your mind in attempts to diminish any cred they might have. IT AIN’T WORKIN DUDE!!!. I will give you this little tidbit……. I am in agreement with the sentiments they aspouse. I hope they clean the clocks of both Dems AND Repubs this election. This country needs to wake up and smell the progressive socialism that been coming forth by way of incremental creep for far too long. It’s NOT what this country was founded on!

      My statement regarding the left wing hate machine stands regardless of the hyperbole and flaming rhetoric you use to say “I know you are but what am I”. I’m sick of it, it deters from honest debate and the country suffers because of it. Why IS the left so unwilling to campaign on all that good stuff they passed? Many Dems are actually running from Obama, Reid and Pelosi with campaigns trying to distance themselves from “the agenda”. Why is that?

      BTW; I liked Stewart’s interview with Obama last night. He actually asked some good questions.

      And another BTW; I seem to remember something to the affect that this DC trip was in conjunction with your birthday. I’m not sure what day that is so let me just say, “HAPPY BIRTHDAY” in advance or belatedly.

  12. Bill says:

    It’s Monday, day after Halloween and thanks.

    I don’t care if you’re partisan, Randy. Good god, there are days when I don’t know who or what I agree with. I know right from wrong and my bullshit filter has been on since Nixon, to tell the truth.

    Yeah, is was a good interview. I thought Stewart was downright disrespectful at times, but he’s been consistent in his criticism of Obama.

    And I’m fascinated by your take on the TP changing DC. The Tea Party can’t kick Republicans out of DC, kiddo. They are all Republicans. They all have the same basic DNA. The newbies who may, or as of this week, may not make it to Washington will do whatever the Hell Boehner and Cantor and DeMint tell them to do. It’s not like they have their own coalition in Congress. They aren’t a third party, just a junior section of the GOP. That’s who they’ll follow like little puppies waiting for Daddy to put down some papers for them to pee on.

    Rock on, dude! I’ll keep you in my rally thoughts. And, as always, you can have the last word. ;-)

  13. torqdog says:

    Well, if this be “the last word”, lemme just say that ALL big dogs were puppies once. I’m just tired of “business as usual” from both sides. We need “REAL” change, not just some campaign slogan. The TP right now is the only thing that even resembles “change” whether you like ’em or not. Did you know that under Pelosi’s watch, the deficit has risen some FIVE TRILLION DOLLARS?!!! So much for “pay as you go”! That kind of reckless spending has got to go and is a major reason why the TP has risen as fast as they have. It’s a “survival as a country” kind of thing.

    I don’t think the TP has any real problem with the three Repubs you mentioned. Folks who might wanna start thinking about retirement are the likes of Lindsay Graham and others who haven’t quite gotten the message that it’s time to abandon the “business as usual” crap that got us here in the first place.

    On another note, while driving around I was thinkin to myself today about how interesting it is that we go through this complete and dramatic shift to the right about every 15 years. It happened in 1980 with the election of Reagan, again in 1994 with the Repub 54 seat takeover of the house and is slated to again occur in 2010. I was trying to put my finger on the cause and the best I could come up with is the fact that with the constant barking from the left parroted by their chorts in the MSM, it slowly wears away at the natuarally occuring conservative fabric that makes up the majority in this country. That in turn causes them to vote through emotion rather than reason and we wind up with the pendulum slowly swinging left up to the point when they have complete control of both the POTUS and the legislature. Then the reality of what exactly progressive programs mean in reality instead of rhetoric sets in and no matter how hard the MSM attempts to prop up the agenda, through their own experiences people see the fatalities in the ideology and we again have a seiesmic event with the pendulum swinging hard to the right. I’m sure this will all play out again over the next 20 or so years, give or take so be prepared for another Conservative ascendancy in about 2026. That of course is if we survive the “end of the World” event predicted for Dec 21, 2012. ;-)

    Now, in keeping with the spirit of this thread, you Sir may have the last word. ;-)

    • Bill says:

      Ok, but this is the my last word and then I want you to have the last word, Randy.

      I think what you’re seeing with the rally this week-end is a whole lotta people saying,”Time Out! This has gotten ugly and out of control and we don’t want any part of it. Here, have some pie.”

      It was never supposed to be a big, serious, angry rally about politics, but, rather, a break in the action. Over two hundred twenty thousand people have clicked on FB to say they are coming. I doubt that many will show ’cause there’s nothing stoppping people from saying they will and then not. I know a woman is coming from Hawaii, a friend of mine is coming from So. Cal and the Rally’s FB page had over 13,000 comments just about Obamas Daily Show appearance, so people are engaged. There are people coming from Europe. And there are organized rallies all over the country set to join the festivities on satelite feeds.

      Now, look, the Beck rally, Randy, seemed to be a weird, self-promotional, quasi-religious deal and I just can’t buy into the bullshit. He made predictions, dragged god into it, and promoted it saying that “something wonderfull was going to happen!” at his rally and that miracles would occur. I thought maybe Lincoln’s statue was going to start crying blood or something as a sign from god that Glenn was the savior. Remember the sequel to 2001:A Space Odyssey called “2010” with Roy Scheider? That line, “Something Wonderful Is Going To Happen!” is the climax to the entire movie when a 2nd sun pops up to keep Earth from freezing in a dawning future ice age. Just fucking stupid. And trying to come across as a preacher who was going to save America was a stupid idea, too. Just my opinion. Not my first rodeo.

      As far as bad rally timing, you have to be f*cking kidding me, right? After Beck purposely scheduled his public excorcism and attempt to restore his honor on the very day, and in the same location, one of the most revered speeches in American history? Here’s your “puhleeze” on steroids, buddy.

      Now, go ahead, have the last word.

    • torqdog says:

      Nah, I think yours will do. I will say that I agree somewhat with your Beck assessment. He really lost me when he made the whole thing centered around faith and he seems to have gone in that direction more and more though since I rarely catch his schtick, I’m just going on the few times I’ve heard him lately. In the past, he seemed to be more into ideology differences and a policy wonk. Either way, his message was a positive one for those into that kind of thing. Couldn’t hurt.

      OK, I’m done! Have fun! Did you know that I was born in DC?

  14. torqdog says:

    “But if we get together in Washington to Restore Sanity, to be reasonable, to help crank it back a notch, somehow it’s a negative, partisan thing”.

    I just wanted to make a comment on this thing you said here. I have not made any real cracks regarding whether it’s partisan or not. My concerns are only regarding the nature of what I expect will be the main message of this rally. I’m all for “restoring sanity” though I do find it a little odd that two of the more insane TV guys are hosting this thing. It’s a “good” thing and should be fun. I’ll prolly watch it on C-Span if they broadcast it like they did the Beck rally.

    And frankly, I haven’t heard any rally criticism on the conservative stuff I watch or listen to. In fact, there really hasn’t been much discussion at all. I did hear one person express the same concerns that David Corn expressed in the article I posted a link to that the timing couldn’t come at a worse time, the weekend before the election. Any motivations to get folks out helping candidates will be all for not as there won’t be any time to canvas. Not to mention, it takes allot of folks out of the equation who might have instead been canvasing for their favorite candidate this weekend. They should have held it last weekend but who am I to say.

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